Husband thinks I'm transphobic

[plesiosaurus]

I'm devastated.
My husband has just said he believes trans women are women, and that my gender critical views are abhorrent. He compared it to thinking that all Muslims are terrorists, and said that I'm bigoted and transphobic. I'm struggling to see how we go forward from this to be honest.

Yes, good advice, Datun.

[quote plesiosaurus]@FFSFFSFFS Not a chance in hell that he would. [/quote]
Then he doesnt believe what he's saying then does he?

I'd be inserting this point into every conversation on the matter, especially in mixed company. He's all mouth and no trousers.

Not sure on the logic of some in this thread- I don't think him saying he wouldn't date a trans person is transphobic and this isn't a gotcha, would this not just count as a preference? i.e I wouldn't date someone shorter/taller than me

I think this boils down to his ego. Perhaps he felt he is very approachable and not at all threatening to women and he's hearing you say that women feel threatened by many unfamiliar men, and therefore him. Perhaps you need to go back to non trans issues such as Sarah everard, and whether he'd be happy for your daughter to walk home at midnight on her own and see if he can begin to see how women feel, and are threatened, in many situations where men aren't.

@Datun

It is a two stage exercise, in my opinion, too. The first one is getting to the point where you can talk.

I would suggest to him that it's incredibly important subject for you, and you would like him to do the courtesy of listening to what you have to say, in a non-confrontational manner.

To be fair, I did this.

And I did mention news items as they came up or I expanded the ones that would come up on the news we were listening to/watching. And eventually it got to the point where my husband realised that it affected so many aspects of life that he could not downplay it any more.

Particularly when he started realising the affect on our teenager and their friends.

@gaynotqueer

Not sure on the logic of some in this thread- I don't think him saying he wouldn't date a trans person is transphobic and this isn't a gotcha, would this not just count as a preference? i.e I wouldn't date someone shorter/taller than me

Lesbians are being told that they are transphobic for having a 'genital preference' - www.gettheloutuk.com/blog/category/research/lesbians-at-ground-zero.html

@plesiosaurus

I'm devastated. My husband has just said he believes trans women are women, and that my gender critical views are abhorrent. He compared it to thinking that all Muslims are terrorists, and said that I'm bigoted and transphobic. I'm struggling to see how we go forward from this to be honest.

The stats show that over 95% of sex offenders are male bodied. Doesn't matter how those people identify. I think the figure from 2011 was something like 98.6% and it's fairly consistent. It maybe be a minority of males, but of those people who do offend, the vast majority are male, and we can't ignore that. Most victim of sexual crime are female. As far as I'm aware, it doesn't matter how they identify as their assault is all about their bodies, not about their inner feelings.

I'm so sorry that he thinks you caring about women is abhorrent. To me, it just says a lot about him :/

@Waitwhat23 I had a read through and it says this-

'As such the sample does not claim to be a representative sample of the lesbian community'

The author of the study chose respondents from within their own networks? The sample size is also only 80.

Here we go. He can put this in his damn pipe and smoke it -

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017#nature-of-sexual-assault-by-rape-or-penetration

I think it's from 2017 -

Offender characteristics

The vast majority of respondents who had experienced rape or assault by penetration since they were 16 reported that the offender(s) were male (99%), with 65% of victims reporting that the offender was a male aged between 20 and 39 (Appendix Table 13)

This is why women are concerned with male bodied people having access to single sex spaces. These stats just cover the reports that were recorded. God knows how many assaults there are that are never reported. A lot I think, judging by the experience of women I know.

Does he believe in the cotton ceiling as well? That lesbians deserve no sympathy for not wanting to sleep with male-bodied people? How bloody homophobic, specifically lesbophobic, is that?

To be fair, I did this.

And I did mention news items as they came up or I expanded the ones that would come up on the news we were listening to/watching. And eventually it got to the point where my husband realised that it affected so many aspects of life that he could not downplay it any more.

Particularly when he started realising the affect on our teenager and their friends.

Indeed Helle, you've got to make them understand why it's important, before you can explain how it's happening.

As we know, full well, it doesn't occur to most men how women walk through life understanding a risk that they don't really think about.

Explaining to them how that risk is suddenly becoming much more real doesn't work, unless they understand why it's a risk in the first place.

As I've said before, I honestly believe feminism should be taught in schools.

It will benefit boys just as much as girls.

@FFSFFSFFS

So he’d sleep with a tw then?

THIS.

Wankers. Men like this know EXACTLY who everybody is when it suits them. It's so disingenuous.

@LalalalalalaLand123

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

FFS Mumsnet I'll to to rephrase to your liking:

But OP we ALREADY don't trust all men - hence why we have single-sex spaces - so I don't know what your DH is talking about! Not all men are abusive, but we can't tell the ones who will be from the ones who won't be, and ENOUGH ARE abusive that for self-preservation we have to distrust all males and take measures to reduce their threat to us. Why should males who say they feel like women, or who dress in a stereotypically feminine way, be allowed in our spaces, when those who don't are not allowed?

@gaynotqueer

Not sure on the logic of some in this thread- I don't think him saying he wouldn't date a trans person is transphobic and this isn't a gotcha, would this not just count as a preference? i.e I wouldn't date someone shorter/taller than me

@gaynotqueer

No it wouldn't be a preference. If he's truly on board with that ideology, then rejecting trans people because they are not biologically female is transphobic. Hence why lesbians are feeling under pressure right now.

[quote gaynotqueer]@Waitwhat23 I had a read through and it says this-

'As such the sample does not claim to be a representative sample of the lesbian community'

The author of the study chose respondents from within their own networks? The sample size is also only 80.[/quote]
I'm not sure I understand your point - is it OK if it's only happening to a few lesbians?

This thread discusses the issue in detail, including discussion of women's own experiences, tweets specially calling lesbians transphobic for stating that they are same sex attracted and the 'cotton ceiling' workshop - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4336091-Do-we-have-it-anywhere-on-record-that-Stonewall-does-does-not-support-people-to-express-their-sexuality-as-exclusively-homosexual

@gaynotqueer

Not sure on the logic of some in this thread- I don't think him saying he wouldn't date a trans person is transphobic and this isn't a gotcha, would this not just count as a preference? i.e I wouldn't date someone shorter/taller than me

For most people sexuality is an orientation, not a preference.

Did he, really?

What about all the girls transing?
What on earth makes girls who are into engineering and manufacture or coding, 'men'.

What is a man? What is a woman?

@plesiosaurus

He said that it's wrong to mistrust all men, and if he said that he mistrusted all women I'd accuse him of misogyny. He just won't see the fundamental difference that means women are instinctively mistrustful of men they don't know - the risk is not comparable!

Doesn't really sit with TWAW to go on to say it's men you mistrust, if in his mind they really are a 'subset of women'. He doesn't believe it, he just doesn't care and he gets to look virtuous in his not caring about his wife's concerns. Is he that much of a catch in other areas?

@palebluemoonlight

Not sure your point here.

If OP's husband believes that TWAW then they would be a subset of woman to hold a preference on, just as short/brown hair etc

He doesn't get to tell you which men you're allowed to be afraid of

Ask him why he didn't think Laurel Hubbard should compete against women in the Olympics, as according to his view she is a woman. I would also say some trans activists would consider his view on Laurel Hubbard transphobic.

Also slightly horrified at the number of responses that seem to be advocating for OP to sack the relationship due to disagreement on this being irredeemable

@plesiosaurus you need to consider what is truly important to you and if you really want to cut ties over this

It's a red line. He's telling you you're nothing but a feeling, that your daughter is nothing but feeling. Something not human, merely support units for males. You don't own your own spaces or sports, everything is up for grabs when a male fancies having it. He's not left wing, he's a misogynistic gynephobe.

He said that it's wrong to mistrust all men, and if he said that he mistrusted all women I'd accuse him of misogyny.

This is something DH struggles with sometimes. A woman will say or do something and he'll be a bit upset because he'll say, "if a man said that to a woman there'd be an outrage". And I have to point out that a) whatever the woman said is almost always inappropriate yes but that b) the difference is that there's inappropriate (woman to man) and then there's creepy/scary/frightening (man to woman).

DH is now super gender critical but the two key things that led to that were 1. the realisation that self identification means any old man can decide he is a woman for no reason, with no need/desire to change anything about himself etc and 2. That the vast bulk of trans women are still intact males.

I think over the last 10 years, when trans people have been portrayed in the media / on tv shows, a M-F for example would be highly feminine, desperate for full transition including surgery (or has had it) etc etc. It takes a lot more digging around and watching what's happening before you realise that's not in fact the truth and/or that there are so many men who are abusing the genuine desire by transpeople to be treated as a different gender for their own selfish/abusive reasons.