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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Husband thinks I'm transphobic

160 replies

plesiosaurus · 15/09/2021 10:55

I'm devastated.
My husband has just said he believes trans women are women, and that my gender critical views are abhorrent. He compared it to thinking that all Muslims are terrorists, and said that I'm bigoted and transphobic. I'm struggling to see how we go forward from this to be honest.

OP posts:
Mumoftwoinprimary · 15/09/2021 11:15

[quote plesiosaurus]@FFSFFSFFS Not a chance in hell that he would. [/quote]
Then he is transphobic. Tell him you find him disgusting and that he is like a terrorist. Over and over again.

Outbutnotoutout · 15/09/2021 11:16

I'm assuming he would happily date a trans women then, given that they are women.

Is he happy for his, wife, mum, sisters, daughter to share a changing room with a male bodied woman?

Polkadotties · 15/09/2021 11:16

It’s really sad that you can’t discuss feminist issues on a feminism board without posts being deleted.

FindTheTruth · 15/09/2021 11:16

Women's rights are not your husbands to remove and it's not hateful to stand up for them.

FFSFFSFFS · 15/09/2021 11:16

Ahhhh so he’s a men’s right activist then

Helleofabore · 15/09/2021 11:17

As a start, you could ask him about Laurel Hubbard and the MMA fighter in the news this week.

Also, does he think you would be transphobic for insisting on a female nurse or doctor doing intimate examinations? What about for your daughter?

You can also ask how he would feel if your daughter had been the one in the WiSpa incident. Would he really be accepting of a male sex offender having their erect penis at your daughter’s eye level?

You might discover that he has his limits. And if he is forced to understand the wide range of ramifications of accepting that mantra, he might not be so comfortable with it. Or he may be well entrenched.

Jack Appleby made a comment once that is very pertinent. Along the lines of is it plausible that left wing lesbians become right wing sympathisers or that something else is at play here. Good luck finding your way forward OP.

FFSFFSFFS · 15/09/2021 11:17

So he would go into a changing room full of teenage girls and women and change because he knows that he won’t assault them?

He’s a prince among men

plesiosaurus · 15/09/2021 11:19

He disagreed with Laurel Hubbard competing against women. I thought I was getting somewhere with that argument, but it seems that I wasn't.

OP posts:
plesiosaurus · 15/09/2021 11:21

@FFSFFSFFS No, he wouldn't do that. He would consider it unacceptable. Which is why I can't understand why he doesn't see it as unacceptable for an intact trans woman to do the same.

OP posts:
RoastChicory · 15/09/2021 11:21

Break it down for him:

  1. Does he think TW are actually women, or is it that they should be treated as though they are women?
  1. If the latter, are there any circumstances where this may not apply. For example, sports such as rugby and weightlifting?
  1. Should there be any gate-keeping, or is it purely self-id? Different rules for those who have had full genital surgery v, Karen White? What about a teenage MTF who wants to share a room with your daughter on a school trip? Should they be treated exactly the same as any other girl?

I personally think the existing legal compromise is not too bad. Trans people are protected from discrimination and harassment. Some are allowed to be treated as actual females - but only after a medical gatekeeping process.

DoormatBob · 15/09/2021 11:22

This reply has been deleted

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FindTheTruth · 15/09/2021 11:22

re the muslim / terrorist line, Maajid Nawaz is an expert who doesn't agree with your husband. This is Maajid Nawaz's monologue on the issue of transgender and transracial self-identification. twitter.com/lbc/status/1301887036111179777

Outbutnotoutout · 15/09/2021 11:26

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heathspeedwell · 15/09/2021 11:26

Once your husband actually takes the time to look in to the issues he'll probably agree with you.

Ask him lots of questions, ideally things that will make him do his own research.

At this point he may not even realise that the vast majority of transwomen have a penis. Understanding that simple fact might help him to understand why women and children will feel uncomfortable, if not frightened, in shared changing rooms etc.

Antinerak · 15/09/2021 11:29

Well obviously he's right Hmm

VeryLongBeeeeep · 15/09/2021 11:31

What is his definition of 'woman'?

Why does he, a man, get to define (assuming he can) the meaning of 'woman' over his wife, who actually is one?

Does he understand why we have safeguarding? Would he be offended by having a DBS check for a new job?

Does he understand class analysis?

NonnyMouse1337 · 15/09/2021 11:31

I bet he wouldn't date or have sex with a transwoman. Easy for blokes to say TWAW but they would never actually live by it because they know transwomen aren't actually women.

Families can disagree bitterly on all sorts of issues. Most people haven't thought through the implications and aren't aware of the realities of such issues because they have only ever read media sources that push a very positive, rosy picture. It makes it easy to jump to knee jerk reactions and slurs.

It's upsetting to hear your husband say these things, but for many people it takes a while for them to change their mind. Many of us started from the position of what's the harm, be kind, only bigots would be opposed and so on. But over time, doubts and questions can start to make an impact.

Avoid the topic as much as possible. It's tempting to want to discuss all of it in depth, but it can put people off. Find an angle that is most likely to appeal to your husband and focus on that. For most men, the sports angle is the easiest to understand. So forget about all the other stuff for now and maybe once in a while mention something about sports.

Sometimes it's really effective to focus on tangential topics. Talk about how hard women have worked to gain their own sports. Talk about the physical and biological differences between men and women. Have you seen the picture of the British swimmers at the Olympics? The men and women were side by side and the sex differences were amazing. All were elite athletes but the men's bodies and women's bodies were so different.
Also the video of the Olympic relay race that had mixed sex runners. All teams except one started with a female runner and finished with a male runner. But the one team decided to start with a male runner and finish with a female runner. The results were amazing. As expected at the start, the team with the male runner was way ahead of the women and the woman on his team was ahead of the men runners. But in the second half of the race, the men caught up so quickly and the woman was left trailing behind. Really profound example of the differences in male and female bodies.

Little things here and there. Agree to disagree for now and avoid getting into arguments. Lightly touch on topics that stimulate questions.
Maybe even order the new Testosterone book and suggest your husband reads it. It has nothing to do with trans issues, although it briefly touches on it as part of the effects on hormones on the body. That might be a better angle to start with as it isn't focused on trans people but rather the physical differences between women and men in general.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 15/09/2021 11:32

So he doesn't think TWAW... just that it doesn't matter when it doesn't affect him. Which is the majority of the time.

ArabellaScott · 15/09/2021 11:34

Try the Socratic approach.

Ask him what a woman is.

Ask him what a transwoman is.

Try and work out what his views actually are.

Or, as Nonny suggests above, avoid the topic for a bit. When someone is that entrenched in their faith-based beliefs it can be very hard to discuss with them. He's painted you as 'the enemy' and this can lead to 'othering' and v strongly defended views.

plesiosaurus · 15/09/2021 11:36

@NonnyMouse1337 That seems a sensible route to take. He did say that it's obviously not "normal" men who become trans women!

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 15/09/2021 11:36

Actually, I think stepping back and giving a bit of space and maybe rather than discussing the issues involved directly, having the sort of wider argument, about how we should respect each other and be courteous and tolerant of other views etc is maybe best.

Faffertea · 15/09/2021 11:38

“Of course TWAW dear which is why I know that you don’t at all object to the transgirl in DD’s class staying in her room overnight on the school trip. I know you’ve previously said they couldn’t share a room but as she’s a girl like any other now it won’t be a problem at all will it? It’s not like DD would get pregnant by accident if they do a bit of teenage exploring and experimenting because they’re both girls after all.”

And let him either tie himself in knots explaining it or be a hypocrite and demonstrate why, in fact, TW are not literally women in every singe sense and at all times.

Nachthex · 15/09/2021 11:39

'He said that it's wrong to mistrust all men, and if he said that he mistrusted all women I'd accuse him of misogyny.'

Ask your DH if he'd revoke all safeguarding laws, as the above implies that. It's not about the individual, as we are saying constantly here, but about classes of people who may present a danger to other classes of people - I am a 60+ year old woman, and I therefore belong to a very low-offending group of people. However, if I want to read with the children in my DGD primary school I have to be vetted. I accept that, as an adult, I may pose a theoretical threat to children.

Depending on what you read, 97-99% of convicted sex offenders in the UK are male and over 80% of their victims are female. Clearly, one class posing a threat to another class of person. So we place boundaries around what is and what is not acceptable. Or at least we used to.

I wonder how he'd answer that.

Waitwhat23 · 15/09/2021 11:40

It's very easy for people such as your husband, for whom these issues are unlikely to affect, to say that you're being unreasonable. Is there a massive push for transmen to use men's toilets, to be placed in the male prison estate, to compete against men in sporting competitions? Are straight men being called transphobic because they wouldn't sleep with transmen? No, they're not. So it doesn't affect them.

It's very easy to say 'be kind' when it doesn't affect you

Helleofabore · 15/09/2021 11:42

@Antinerak

Well obviously he's right Hmm
So do you think it is acceptable for a naked male with a penis to get into a spa with a naked 9 year old in a spa in a female only spa area?

Do you think it is acceptable for a naked male with a semi erect penis to get into a spa with a naked 9 year old in a spa in a female only spa area?

Do you think it is acceptable for a naked male with a semi erect penis who has several prior sex offences to get into a spa with a naked 9 year old in a spa in a female only spa area?

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