Husband thinks I'm transphobic

[plesiosaurus]

I'm devastated.
My husband has just said he believes trans women are women, and that my gender critical views are abhorrent. He compared it to thinking that all Muslims are terrorists, and said that I'm bigoted and transphobic. I'm struggling to see how we go forward from this to be honest.

'He said that it's wrong to mistrust all men, and if he said that he mistrusted all women I'd accuse him of misogyny.'

Urgh, the reeking male privilege that he can't see the difference between these two things.

If a girl buys a pair of mens shorts, and cuts her hair short, and says she identifies as male, does she actually have a clue what it means to be a boy or a man? In fact scrap the shorts and the hair cut because we all agree they are not gender signifiers don't we? Why should men let her into a men's mental health group, a male sauna session or a mens football team?

[quote plesiosaurus]@NonnyMouse1337 That seems a sensible route to take. He did say that it's obviously not "normal" men who become trans women![/quote]
Ask him what he means by normal. Rather than you telling him your views, it's better to ask him questions to draw out his thought processes. As people are asked to actually articulate their views, sometimes this causes them to see the flaws in their own arguments.

As Arabella says, step back and give each other space. Try to get him to agree that respect and tolerance of each other's views is important. He's been with you long enough to know you are not a bad person.

I am in a similar situation with my daughter. In her case, her age, the university she attended etc, shaped her views. We have talked about it, but agreed to let it go.

With your husband it sounds as if it's his left-wing politics that is the stumbling block. Plus not really understanding what it's like to live as a female-bodied person, despite having a wife and daughter.

The Morning Star is quite good on the materiality of oppression.

But in some ways, I do think beyond signposting some helpful resources there is really not a lot one can do when people 'identify' with a set of beliefs for reasons that are non-rational. It is extremely painful to distance oneself from one's friends/comrades etc. I am about to leave a group I have been part of for ten years, because my views that sex is binary have been termed 'ridiculous' by another member and absolutely no one has spoken up to say my views are reasonable.

In most marriages there are areas of difference - Brexit has been divisive. I suppose as with my daughter the point is to understand why he needs to think as he does. It would be useful if he could respect your viewpoint. On the other hand if he doesn't, the best thing is to say that it's something you've thought about a lot and that your views are unlikely to change. You'll have to agree to differ.

Ask him if he thinks there are good reasons for having separate facilities for men and women. Toilets? Changing rooms? Sports categories? Prisons? Should we abolish them? If not, why not?

Have you pointed out to him this also means that he thinks that men get periods?

97-99% of convicted sex offenders in the UK are male and over 80% of their victims are female.

Lots and LOTS of men have absolutely no idea of this pretty stark statistic. I know several (lovely, kind, good) men who have been utterly taken aback to find out that no, men and women don't offend equally.

I would really struggle with this.
Shared values are very important to me.

@DoormatBob

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Seriously?

I'll rephrase it. As a dad with a DD it really hit home with me when I considered how I would feel when my DD reaches age 7-8 and is expected to use her own swimming changing room if I saw transwomen go in too.

Does anyone remember that Twitter exchange where a guy was saying this and then people asked him if he'd date someone with a penis?

"No, I don't go for people like that"
"People like what?"
"Well... men..."

I had a friend call me transphobic and it was really tough. Luckily another friend told her off and said it was bullying behaviour so she has since apologised and taken it back. The problem is that transphobia doesn’t just apply to actually being bigoted and hateful towards trans people. The word is also used when anyone disagrees with any of current trans theory. So I was called transphobic because I don’t agree with the medical model of transing children - I prefer an affirmative watch and wait approach until they are 16. I’m transphobic because I disagree with the concept that I have a gender identity that matches my sex. I disagree with postmodernism and think that sex, not gender is the crucial axis of oppression. I had a talk with my friend and she eventually realised that it was out of order to call me a bigot just because I had different views, and so now she doesn’t attack the person but tries to attack the views (if we get into a debate about this issue). It might be useful to ask your husband just how and in what way you are transphobic.

@DoormatBob I really don't understand why your comment was deleted - it wasn't rude or offensive at all

He sounds gender critical to me. Keep gently pushing at the door?

As previous posters have said, maybe best to let the dust settle for a bit.

Then maybe start pointing out stories in the press where eg convicted male paedophiles are being referred to as women, or men who have been in the military are kicking the crap out of women, for entertainment, etc.

Does he know the statistics? Does he know that 98% of all sex crimes are committed by men, not women? And that's why we segregate by sex. Does he know that one girl per day is raped in school? And does he know that 90% of all sex attacks in changing rooms occur in those which are mixed sex? And does he know that the overwhelming majority of transwomen, about 90%, keep their penises and many are heterosexual. And that transitioning doesn't change those statistics, in fact, given the loopholes afforded by transition, it increases them.

Sometimes it's a lack of knowledge about why women need separate spaces in the first place that lead men not to get it.

A lot of people need a fast track lesson in feminism before they understand. And obviously, in a fairly sexist society, that hasn't been happening.

At some point in the future, you could also explain that there are two types of transwomen.

This excerpt from Helen Joyce's book Trans, should help. You can tell him she is a journalist for the Economist, if he's already suspicious of her credibility as a woman...

quillette.com/2021/09/07/the-truth-about-autogynephilia/

[quote plesiosaurus]@NonnyMouse1337 That seems a sensible route to take. He did say that it's obviously not "normal" men who become trans women![/quote]
So he needs to see these males as something 'other'. Not the same as him because that would make HIM uncomfortable and would have to look more deeply at the behaviour of others from his own sex class. He simply cannot comprehend why someone like him would want to claim womanhood when he sees women as inferior.

He IS a misogynist.

@weebisom the word 'transphobic' is just white noise to me now. It's been used so frequently, to cover such a ludicrously wide range of subjects, and has been used (as you've mentioned) for simple disagreement with any aspect of gender ideology that it's lost its power. We're told hurting feelings is literal violence, that any disagreement of any kind is calling for people to die or 'denying the existence of transpeople'.

It's a real shame that people experiencing actual transphobia have been affected by this. They've been badly let down by the extremism of gender ideology.

Remember you're transphobic if:

-you know mammals cannot change sex
-you don't agree with vulnerable teenagers being sterilised if they don't conform to lazy old gender stereotypes
-you understand safeguarding
-you think women have the right to say "no" to males

I don't mind being labelled as such in this case.

How did the discussion come about?

I wonder if he dug his heels in beyond what he positively believes himself because he previously assumed you'd hold the same views - generally leftish- and felt wrong-footed that you disagreed and challenged his opinions?

Or has he been aware of your position for a while?

Where do you think he's getting his information?

[quote Waitwhat23]@DoormatBob I really don't understand why your comment was deleted - it wasn't rude or offensive at all[/quote]
Remember we aren't allowed to generalise. Nor are we allowed to be too specific.

He disagreed with Laurel Hubbard competing against women

Ask him why. Ask him to spell out why there is an issue in that, but he doesn't think it matters in any other sphere of life. Ask him to articulate what his selective beliefs are, without mantras.

Well obviously he's right

In what sense? Do you share his view that Laurel Hubbard shouldn't compete against women?

It is a two stage exercise, in my opinion, too. The first one is getting to the point where you can talk.

I would suggest to him that it's incredibly important subject for you, and you would like him to do the courtesy of listening to what you have to say, in a non-confrontational manner.

Has he fallen into the trap of believing that all 'trans women' are post-op travsexuals? Basically Hayley from Coronation Street.

Does he know that 'trans' includes Transgender, transsexual, cross dressers, various fetishes like Furries etc?

Does he understand the concept of Safeguarding?

Ask him if he thinks all teachers are child abusers? If he doesn't, then ask him why he's happy for ALL teachers to be CRB checked. Is this unkind?
It's the same concept.