Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'The broadcaster Carrie Grant and her presenter husband once had three daughters. Now she is the only female'

174 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 12/09/2021 09:39

Article in Sunday Times today. Afraid I don't have a share token. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4f956268-1336-11ec-a8a6-db0b408d06d6?shareToken=e9d28aa2838a4d2fd0f5590b44444fe2

I know nothing about this couple but apparently they are both TV presenters. They have four children, the eldest two being young adults now. The three female children are all now identifying as other things and have changed their names. According to the comments, she has previously talked about her children having ADHD, being on the autistic spectrum, having various mental health issues - but none of that is mentioned in this article. Hmm.

This is a bit concerning. Carrie is speaking for the first time about the complexities of family life with children who question their gender before a conference this month called The Gender Agenda, at which she and her husband are appearing. At the event, organised by Oasis, the biggest schools academies trust, guidelines will be published for teachers on how to handle boys who want to be girls and vice versa.

I hope there's going to be a range of opinions.

OP posts:
IvyTwines2 · 12/09/2021 13:19

The Guardian used to run an anonymous weekly column about a family with teenagers. When the columnist was named, along with information about the very challenging real world situation the family was then going through, the Guardian removed all the old columns from its website. I wish that degree of safeguarding sensitivity regarding children and teenagers was still being shown today.

PaleGreenGhost · 12/09/2021 13:25

The most charitable thing I can think of to say is that getting support for children with SEN and getting post adoption support is very very difficult.

Enabling a trans identity in your children probably gives instant access to support and attention, and a great way of getting protection from bullying at school. I imagine the parents gaining social acceptance and opportunities in captured organisations such as the BBC was the icing on the sparkly blue gender-reveal cake.

FloralBunting · 12/09/2021 13:28

@IvyTwines2

The Guardian used to run an anonymous weekly column about a family with teenagers. When the columnist was named, along with information about the very challenging real world situation the family was then going through, the Guardian removed all the old columns from its website. I wish that degree of safeguarding sensitivity regarding children and teenagers was still being shown today.
This is one of the aspects that infuriates me. The amount of Genderists who parade their kids as poster children for the ideology with no thought or concern for their privacy or well being. I wouldn't bloody dream of exposing my vulnerable kids, at a difficult time in their life, to public scrutiny. Sensible parents don't even put pics of their kids on public facebook pages. But this bunch run around discussing self harm attempts and all sorts. It's massively selfish and irresponsible.
Pickledonionsfortea · 12/09/2021 13:45

@TheOccupier
I wish I could see the funny side. When you have an autistic teenage daughter for whom there is no support other than suggestion of being trans by CAMHS it becomes a nightmare.
I am spending my time, money and emotional energy trying to get appropriate therapy for my lovely, vulnerable, autistic daughter whose struggles to come to terms with her changing body have been dismissed as ‘being trans’. CAMHS are putting her onto a medicalised path, quite happy that they are doing the right thing for her. No therapy is available focussing on her autism and anxiety, only a referral to GIDS.
I look at her and see a gender non conforming girl, who is being encouraged to identify out of her sex.
We as females will all be the poorer for having gender non conforming females identifying out of womanhood.
What are we doing to our non conforming, and/or autistic girls?

KaycePollard · 12/09/2021 13:50

They were born female, and are still female.

@Soontobe60 if we’re talking about Ms Grant’s daughters, orally agree.

I was responding to @MonsignorMirth who was spouting unscientific gender identity extremism. You know, the sort that would say Ms Grant’s daughters(biologically female) are literally and physiologically male because they “identify “ as boys.

I think you and I are in agreement here about the unscientific and untrue nature of that statement in contrast to @Monsignormirth

Cuck00soup · 12/09/2021 13:53

Didn't Steve Chalke used to be an agony Uncle on a Saturday morning TV show?

It's so disturbing that people in positions of power and trust have swallowed gender bollocks. Interestingly GC feminists are frequently referred to as Nazi's yet we are blind to who the people running the camps really are.

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2021 13:55

[quote Pickledonionsfortea]@TheOccupier
I wish I could see the funny side. When you have an autistic teenage daughter for whom there is no support other than suggestion of being trans by CAMHS it becomes a nightmare.
I am spending my time, money and emotional energy trying to get appropriate therapy for my lovely, vulnerable, autistic daughter whose struggles to come to terms with her changing body have been dismissed as ‘being trans’. CAMHS are putting her onto a medicalised path, quite happy that they are doing the right thing for her. No therapy is available focussing on her autism and anxiety, only a referral to GIDS.
I look at her and see a gender non conforming girl, who is being encouraged to identify out of her sex.
We as females will all be the poorer for having gender non conforming females identifying out of womanhood.
What are we doing to our non conforming, and/or autistic girls?[/quote]
Yes pickle. It’s terrible. So sorry you can’t get decent support for your girl

OldCrone · 12/09/2021 14:13

@Pickledonionsfortea
You might be able to get some help from the Bayswater support group.
bayswatersupport.org.uk/

Fleek · 12/09/2021 14:31

I'm really angry about this. I saw an article in the Daily Mail about how Carrie is taking time to grieve for the loss of her daughters. I mean, I know that's her signalling she is taking this ideology seriously and that she believes uttering the words 'I am not a girl' changes material reality but it's so offensive. Does Carrie want to go to GOSH and talk to my friend whose toddler is terminally ill? Would their grief have any similarities, do you think?

Also you only have to look at the photos to that even if all 3 are 'trans or non-binary', the facts remain exactly the same - they are female with female bodies and that has implications they can't escape from however much they might want to. All three might need to chat about contraception/period pains/sexism at work/sexual harassment when out and about etc. How does that suddenly disappear? If it doesn't, isn't the non-binary label completely meaningless (er...)?

iklboo · 12/09/2021 14:36

Demigirl? FFS.

Blibbyblobby · 12/09/2021 14:49

@LizzieSiddal

I too wondered why their other problems/difficulties, which Carrie has openly spoken about, have not also been mentioned.

Personal opinion here but if my three daughters had all “changed” their identities so frequently, I wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry, it’s utterly ridiculous imo.

Personal opinion here but if my three daughters had all “changed” their identities so frequently, I wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry, it’s utterly ridiculous imo.

But the thing is, it isn't ridiculous really. It's perfectly normal for adolescents and young adults to take on for a while and then drop different ways of presenting and thinking about themselves while they work out who they are, what drives them and where they fit in.

What is ridiculous is the idea being pushed by genderists that people experimenting with and rejecting gender constructions attached to their sex are proof that there is an expected personality that goes with body sex.

I can't see how they are able to take the entirely valid observation that many people don't match gender expectations for their sex, but somehow take it as proof that gender is more real than sex, and not just proof that gender doesn't exist as anything more than social expectations.

LizzieSiddal · 12/09/2021 15:29

Blibby sorry yes I agree with you, I meant her response to her DDs behaviour was ridiculous.

LobsterNapkin · 12/09/2021 15:35

Progressive Christians in the main are extremely vulnerable to this kind of bad thinking. They threw any kind of serious scholarship out the window 50 years ago and have at the same time a strong sense of the need for radical love (which is good in itself) but what that means is driven by secular culture and what makes them feel good. It's not a great combination.

Biut - aside from this trauma question, and we don't really know what is involved with these specific kids, it is absolutly and completely normal for teenagers to feel out of place in the world and try and shore up their sense of self in various ways. We all know that teens try and build a persona around things like clothing styles, music, changing their names, that they are obsessed with things like personality tests to tell them who they really are, or they want to be a preppy kid, a jock, a goth, they read dystopian novels and write bad morbid poetry to show how bad their lives are. It's so common it's unremarkable, especially among girls.

One new way of doing this is to adopt an weird, but not too weird, gender identity, say they are pansexual, get a medical diagnosis, become an activist for the oppressed group they now belong to, change their clothes and hairstyle, be affirmed by their school LBGTQ+ group and the internet.

Of course this appeals to the same teenage kids who were attracted to punk, goth, grunge. I'm not even convinced that growing up to be gay or lesbian is anymore an especially common characteristic of this group, as it seemed to be a few years ago.

The really important point though is that the dedication to these labels is typically something kids grow out of, even if they keep listening to the music, or have some stylistic preferences. Maturity isn't about seeing yourself through that kind of lens, it's about realizing that we don't need these kinds of labels and that they tend to be a rather shallow way of looking at the world.

The fact that adults are affirming this stuff is crazy.

Betty91 · 12/09/2021 15:41

This is so alarming - The Oasis founder Steve Chalke has tweeted about this and their Gender Agenda day - yet there is nothing to suggest he is balancing the Mermaids / Proud Trust message with the type of advice given by Transgender Trend. Oasis Academies are 52 primary & secondary schools. It's all very well Carrie talking about her 3 children but her influence and advice is going to be taken as gospel (pun intended). For a rare condition - which people claim is innate - what are the chances 3/4 of her children have it. I mean.

How many more times are we going to have to hear about schools accepting the doctrine of Trans before the Dept of Ed or Ofsted pull their fingers out and deal with this. It is indoctrination and not education. They wouldn't be able to tell our children to believe in veganism - so why are they allowed to tell our children that sex is a spectrum and they can change sex.

BillyJoe111 · 12/09/2021 15:51

Bloody hell. I just can’t even begin to unravel any of it.

As an aside, my son got in trouble at college last year for refusing to put pronouns after his signature at college because it’s all so ridiculous. When they backed him into a corner he put Car/four-wheeled vehicle and said he identified as a Mini Cooper. Fucking childish, but he’s as bored of it all as I am and he’s only just turned 19.

Eyesofdisarray · 12/09/2021 15:52

Can't work out whether @MonsignorMirth is serious or being tongue in cheek
Hasn't the study been withdrawn, @SuperLoudPoppingAction?
I signed a petition (I don't mean just cos I signed it!!)

viques · 12/09/2021 15:54

@KaycePollard

they don't want to be girls, they are girls, in their internal gender, and always have been.

No.

Their physiology down to every individual cell in their bodies, are male.

That they have a body dysphoria which makes their thinking at odds with their sexed bodies is a mental health issue.

The western mind/body split has a lot to answer for.

“Their physiology down to every individual cell in their bodies , are male”

So you were there when the dna tests came back XY were you?

Betty91 · 12/09/2021 15:55

@BillyJoe111 - Your son sounds great. Am so relieved younger people are able to see through all this.

I know children who were asked to state their pronouns to their new teachers as they started Year 7.

LoislovesStewie · 12/09/2021 15:56

This is a serious question but does anyone think that this is a form of mass hysteria? I don't mean in the sense of people running around screaming but in the sense that one starts they all follow. It might actually be called folie à deux? So one person gets a condition and others close to them believe they have it too?

BillyJoe111 · 12/09/2021 15:57

[quote Betty91]@BillyJoe111 - Your son sounds great. Am so relieved younger people are able to see through all this.

I know children who were asked to state their pronouns to their new teachers as they started Year 7.[/quote]
He just doesn’t get it. He’s of the options that you are either male or female and you can’t change that. You can dress how you like, have surgery but what you are biologically can’t change.

When he was in year 10, I was threatened with social services over his opinion as they said he must have been groomed. I went batshit at the school and they backed off.

Tibtom · 12/09/2021 15:57

This article is from 8 years ago and gives some history into how the children acquired the various labels.

www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/394611/Carrie-Grant-Life-is-always-interesting-in-our-house

That article (or the Grants) seem to have muddled their labels: learning difficulties not learning disabilities.

Betty91 · 12/09/2021 16:00

@BillyJoe111 schools have been seriously over stepping the mark on this issue for far too long. I am getting fed up with the number of parents I know of personally - and read about - having to take schools on themselves.

This is why it makes me laugh when people think the push back on Trans Ideology is a right wing conspiracy. We've had a right wing government for a decade - they are the ones asleep at the wheel and waving all this stuff through.

Bythemillpond · 12/09/2021 16:02

girls who want to be seen as girls

What about demi girls?

BillyJoe111 · 12/09/2021 16:03

@LoislovesStewie

This is a serious question but does anyone think that this is a form of mass hysteria? I don't mean in the sense of people running around screaming but in the sense that one starts they all follow. It might actually be called folie à deux? So one person gets a condition and others close to them believe they have it too?
Yes, I do. I really do.

I’ve seen it with acquaintances of my eldest. It’s almost like it’s the in thing now. They see it as being the cool thing to do. Once one started, more followed.

When I was at school in the mid nineties, it was drinking and self harm that made you stand out (and I work in mental health so I don’t say that lightly, I self harmed because I liked the manics and for a few months, it made me the cool, dangerous one).

My older sister and her mates all shaved their heads and became punks.

Now the attention comes from changing pronouns, or genders.

I feel sorry for young people today.

Tibtom · 12/09/2021 16:04

@MonsignorMirth

boys who want to be girls

Wow, really? This is really transphobic - they don't want to be girls, they are girls, in their internal gender, and always have been.

So it should say something like "girls who want to be seen as girls".

But isn't it also transphobic to suggest that a transwoman presenting in a stereotypically masculine manner is not a delicate feminine flower? Is this another one of those occasions were sauce for the gosling is definitely not sauce for the gander?
Swipe left for the next trending thread