Strange interaction at work yesterday.

[WhatsAppening]

I work in a pub.

A person with obviously male features and clothes came in. This person spoke in a manner that led us to immediately think they had some additional needs. I’m only saying that because I think it’s relevant. They asked for a glass of tap water.

About ten minutes later they asked to use the toilets. My colleague said ‘sure mate, toilets are down there’.

‘I’m actually female’

Oh ok [confused as to the relevance]

‘My pronouns are she/her, I’m transgender’

Nod and smile.

‘Don’t worry though, I don’t get angry when people get it wrong’ this was said in a manner that suggested they would, actually.

More nodding and smiling.

Toilets are still down there love. (they are unisex. We have one room with six closed off cubicles and a shared sink, we hate it but that’s how it is).

Person then used the facilities and left without saying anything else or finishing the glass of water.

The whole interaction felt like a huge trap. I get the impression this person was building up courage to have this conversation based on toilet provision and was trying to be directed to the ladies.

I just felt sad for this person who is obviously troubled and has latched on to this as a way to fit in (or stand out?), but also angry to have been put in that position, it was all just so confrontational and strange. It’s the first time anything like this has happened to me other than from my own blue haired ‘she/they’ teenager. But they were 100% looking for us to challenge them.

It was just…weird.

Not sure why I’m posting really, other than to get it off my mind.

It might have been a reaction to being called “mate” rather than the toilets thing, as that’s usually not how men address women. But yeah, unnecessary confrontation is bound to make you feel uncomfortable...and how else were you supposed to handle it?

Just out of interest was your colleague male or female?

It sounds very much like a practice run.

When you say ‘male’ features, what do you mean?

I think it can get quite confusing these days when you hear of females who micro dose with testosterone to look more male but are not identifying as male.

And it sounds like they identified your toilets as being safer to enter than other places.

But there was absolutely nothing about this person’s appearance that suggested they were anything other than a man. Jogging bottoms, band t shirt, short hair and stubble.

So ‘mate’ seemed the appropriate greeting to my colleague. If it had been me it would have been ‘love’. Colleague is Aussie and actually uses mate for most people anyway.

It felt like a set up to court some kind of drama.

Male colleague.

@Helleofabore

And it sounds like they identified your toilets as being safer to enter than other places.

They didn’t know anything about our set up, as evidenced by trying to come in through the locked fire exit at first.

Well if they were trying to provoke a reaction, they didn't get a rise and you have unisex loos, so they'll go somewhere else for the drama.

@Helleofabore

When you say ‘male’ features, what do you mean?

I think it can get quite confusing these days when you hear of females who micro dose with testosterone to look more male but are not identifying as male.

I have literally never heard of this.

Non binary

Either sex and any gender can wear whatever clothes etc want.
Gender is, we are told, an innate feeling, nothing to do with sex stereotypes (unless you want a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, which relies solely on sex stereotypes).

So no reason why anyone should have to look a certain way, masculine, feminine, or a mix.

Well, to me, that sounds like a man wanting to find the women's toilets for nefarious reasons.

@HollowTalk

Well, to me, that sounds like a man wanting to find the women's toilets for nefarious reasons.

My feelings too. Even if ‘nefarious’ is just making other people uncomfortable.

It was all just so strange and unnecessary, particularly the disclaimer of ‘don’t worry I won’t get angry’. I mean, who says that about anything else?

‘I won’t be offended…’ v ‘I won’t get angry’. The latter is a veiled threat.

Agree. Sounds like a man or a TW who wanted to create a row. I pity the next pub they go to. Sounds like you had a narrow escape there OP

It sounds more like a challenge to the 'mate' than the toilets. Although 'mate' is fairly general term to most of us someone sensitive to pronouns might take offence if they assume 'mate' is being used as a masculine label. I use mate for anyone, could be because I don't know their name or just haven't looked at them properly.

Fwiw I think the state of pronouns is ridiculous, no issues with anyone identifying as transgender but if someone physically looks typically male or female anyone not intimately aware of their preferences is going to use he/she as they see it- it's generally not a slight it's just how we have been programmed and the shift is going to take longer to bed in and for language to change. Yes challenge it but in a constructive way, or choose to educate rather than look for confrontation.

When I worked in retail, we occasionally got a "mystery shopper" who would report on how long it took us to greet the customer, how friendly we were, etc. I wonder if this is the modern version? Or perhaps some activists are just going around trying to find places they can report for transphobia. I'm so glad I'm retired and never going have to deal with a situation like this, because I don't think I'd be able to hold my tongue....

“I won’t get angry” is a creepy thing to say.

I hear young people addressing other young (female) people as mate fairly often (in the UK). I'm 50+ and would be very annoyed at being so addressed: generational thing I think. Pubs usually object to non-customers using their loos or is that just London? A glass of water hardly cuts it. A difficult character all round then, this bloke.

They didn’t know anything about our set up, as evidenced by trying to come in through the locked fire exit at first.

Yeah. I meant your toilets were not public toilets or in a shopping centre etc and they may have had the best chance of not meeting any other females using them. And hence wouldn’t be questioned etc.

@Helleofabore

They didn’t know anything about our set up, as evidenced by trying to come in through the locked fire exit at first.

Yeah. I meant your toilets were not public toilets or in a shopping centre etc and they may have had the best chance of not meeting any other females using them. And hence wouldn’t be questioned etc.

That would only make sense if they hadn’t immediately jumped to ‘actually I’m female’. They obviously wanted to be challenged. It was performative.

I have literally never heard of this.

Apparently it is happening. If you listen to some posters on this board who berate us for not knowing this happens, it is common amongst their friends.

Of course, like most posters who seem to only post in that style they seem to have the opinion that their acquaintance is a true representation of the whole of society. When it is not representative of the wider community at all.

Even so, it is sadly happening.

Yeah sounds like they were just after a fight tbh.

Like the people who go to the trouble of photographing their ID, showing their car keys as ID instead of just producing their driving licenses.
.that's the public for you. They often just go out of their way to have an argument

Wow. What a non-story. Person walks into bar, uses toilets and then leaves.

What exciting times for you all.

Or to expand a bit. Person walks into a bar, is concerned that someone using the term 'mate' for them means that they have mis-gendered them, politely corrects them so that they are not directed to the wrong toilets by accident, uses the toilets and leaves.

Just walking into public toilets in a shopping centre wouldn't provide the same opportunity to have the conversation with staff 'in charge' of entry. And would risk a challenge by a member of the public which this person might not feel ready for, yet. Or alternatively, no one would challenge them and they wouldn't have a chance to say anything.
So this person sought out a situation where they could publicly assert their preference for women's loos without getting into a situation which they might not be able to control.
This sounds very much like a test run.