Christine Mboma wins Diamond League 200m

[NotBadConsidering]

Christine Mboma is male. Shericka Jackson 2nd. Dina Asher-Smith came 3rd.

www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/58442621

Obviously no mention of the controversy around a male sex person running in women’s athletics by the brief summary by the BBC .

Previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4312328-Female-Namibian-runners-change-events-due-to-too-high-testosterone

At each series the prize money is as follows:

www.diamondleague.com/rules/

1st 10,000 USD
2nd 6000
3rd 3500

Allowing this male to continue to run is costing women thousands of dollars each time .

‘Been through male puberty’ would cover it

I can see where you are coming from. But it still comes across as ambiguous to those who have not done the background reading. This has the effect of 'softening' the term, but also adding confusion.

It does not clarify the situation for the majority of readers and would still be effectively calling that person 'male'.

But it still comes across as ambiguous to those who have not done the background reading.

And it also implies that, for example, a male who had undergone a course of puberty blockers could fairly compete. I don't believe that's the case - male advantage is visible before puberty.

CAIS is a stronger than that - it's total insensitivity at all stages since birth.

[quote andyoldlabour]There is an interesting thread about this very subject on the "Lets run" forum.

www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10834669[/quote]
Wow. Lots of very robust language on there. Has anyone told them they must be nicer?

CurrantTeacake

I was amazed by the "transphobic" accusations, when what is being discussed has absolutely nothing to do with transgender issues.

It is more than clear that athletes are privately fuming about this and have been told to keep quiet. BBC gagged Sharron Davies at the Olympics and Martina at Wimbledon.

I was also a bit at the comment in that thread that “Mboma is fast for an 18 yr old male”.

Mboma’s U20 WR time in the women’s Olympic 200m finals of 21.81 wouldn’t meet the men’s 200m Olympic qualifying time.

21.81 is 18th in the 2021 U.K. rankings for U20 males

So, yeah that’s fast

@Jaysmith71

It is more than clear that athletes are privately fuming about this and have been told to keep quiet. BBC gagged Sharron Davies at the Olympics and Martina at Wimbledon.

Is Michael Johnson still commentating? He wasn't happy with these athletes running at the Olympics.

Michael Johnson was also part of the BBC team and conspicuoulsy quiet on this matter.

Michael Johnson always refers to Mboma & Masilingi as the DSD athletes.
I suspect he is prevented from expressing his honest opinion because of the BBC.

I am hoping that Mboma will actually force the various governing bodies for athletics to take action. Their success in the women’s 200m is too obvious to ignore. They didn’t even use starting blocks in the 200m at the Olympics & still took a silver medal.

@AlecTrevelyan006

21.81 is 18th in the 2021 U.K. rankings for U20 males

So, yeah that’s fast

And yet according to the World Athletics world rankings, Mboma would rank only as the 500th fastest athlete within the male U20 200m times this season?

she has clearly put in the training

Not really. If you have functional testes you can swap disciplines, train for a few weeks and pretty much hack up in the women's competition, unless you come up against another individual with testes, or are comparatively really old, fat, injured or useless (see L. Hubbard).

Ekofisk

Mboma only took up athletics in 2017. I have no reason to doubt, that if the WA allow this madness to continue, then Mboma will break the WR by such a margin as to put it completely out of reach for women with normal Testosterone levels.

Or indeed women with any testosterone levels. A doped woman cannot get close to male performance.

@Reallyreallyborednow

No one is saying people with DSDs can’t determine how they present, but in terms of sport their sex is NOT ambiguous

There’s a definite “XY = male”, narrative on this thread, and not just relevant to sport.

This male

“I will not refer to Mboma as female because of a medical clerical error or to “be kind”*

And a male without obvious external genitalia regardless of the reason is still a male

They are a person with a dsd. That is why we are discussing their participation in womens sport, not because they are men who have decided to compete as women, which a whole other issue.

I completely agree that they shouldn’t be competing in womens sport, and I don’t have any answers as to where they should compete.

I’m confused, if these athletes weren’t male we wouldn’t be discussing the unfairness of them taking women’s places and prizes

What do you think we should say instead of male?

That is the relevant difference, they are male with male physical advantages and they are competing in races as if they were female when they are not.

There are only two sexes, and everyone is one or the other. No third sex. No hermaphroditism in humans. No non-sexual humans.

People with DSD are males or females whose sexual development has gone a bit wrong. They are all DSD males or DSD females. And the absence of ovaries and the presence of testes screams male.

I’m confused, if these athletes weren’t male we wouldn’t be discussing the unfairness of them taking women’s places and prizes confused

If they were typically male, we wouldn’t be discussing it because they’d be in the male category.

Until a rule is brought in that all competitors above a certain level must have genetic testing, and compete in accordance with their genetic sex, there will be those with dsd’s that are assigned female (or male) at birth and no one knows they are XY until they are drug tested and their testosterone comes back high.

The athletes we are discussing will have known they were XY well before competing at a level that requires drug testing.
What do you think happened at puberty when they failed to develop breasts and menstruate?

@andyoldlabour

Ekofisk

Mboma only took up athletics in 2017. I have no reason to doubt, that if the WA allow this madness to continue, then Mboma will break the WR by such a margin as to put it completely out of reach for women with normal Testosterone levels.

Yes, I know, especially given that Mboma is still crap at using blocks so just working on starts and technique will shave off more time.

But it’s still useful to point out that 499 males of a similar age ran faster than Mboma this season.

What do you think happened at puberty when they failed to develop breasts and menstruate?

Do you know any elite athletes? It’s not uncommon for their low body fat to delay puberty. Small/non existent breasts and no periods at 16/17 isn’t unusual. My daughter’s squad (in the UK) usually has 1 or 2 girls each year out of 6 not start periods by 16. By the time it’s questioned, referred and investigated they’ve usually started spontaneously, but if not they could easily be competing at 18 without knowing.

@Reallyreallyborednow

What do you think happened at puberty when they failed to develop breasts and menstruate?

Do you know any elite athletes? It’s not uncommon for their low body fat to delay puberty. Small/non existent breasts and no periods at 16/17 isn’t unusual. My daughter’s squad (in the UK) usually has 1 or 2 girls each year out of 6 not start periods by 16. By the time it’s questioned, referred and investigated they’ve usually started spontaneously, but if not they could easily be competing at 18 without knowing.

It is not just that a male, whose testes failed to develop outside their body, fails to develop as a woman. They function of these internal testes which really develop their male bodies. Looking at Niyonsaba, you see a male physique.

Just looked at the 5.000 race, and Niyonsaba played it safe. Jogging along to blend in. You could see Niyonsaba had loads left at the end and wasn't even giving it Niyonsaba's all to safely cross the line. Guess that is what comes from having a motorcycle in a bike race.

@Reallyreallyborednow

What do you think happened at puberty when they failed to develop breasts and menstruate?

Do you know any elite athletes? It’s not uncommon for their low body fat to delay puberty. Small/non existent breasts and no periods at 16/17 isn’t unusual. My daughter’s squad (in the UK) usually has 1 or 2 girls each year out of 6 not start periods by 16. By the time it’s questioned, referred and investigated they’ve usually started spontaneously, but if not they could easily be competing at 18 without knowing.

We’re not just talking about the absence of a female puberty, they would have started a male puberty. That wouldn’t have been delayed by their running.

Niyonsaba wins the 5000m.

www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/58493879

NecessaryScene you’re absolutely right this is only a story because of the fact Niyonsaba is male, yet the BBC don’t mention all the facts. When has the women’s 5000m ever had two stories with leading headlines? If a male wasn’t in it, it wouldn’t even have been bothered with . It will be same with the women’s 200m tomorrow.

I don't know whether to be really angry or really sad.