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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The look at me of pronouns

461 replies

Ritascornershop · 01/09/2021 18:14

Recently I’ve had two interactions that have startled me. One was with legal aid (I’m in Canada) where the young lawyer rang me and said “Hello this is Thomas from xx, my practice is x and my pronouns are he/him.” Just in case I thought someone with a male voice and whose name was Thomas might like me, when speaking to him, to refer to him in the third person as she/her. I laughed and pointed out that as I was speaking directly to him, his pronouns wouldn’t be relevant.

The other interaction was after I’d written my member of parliament’s office asking for an answer on something I couldn’t get a Ministry to answer me on. 3 months later I finally got a reply suggesting I contact that Ministry 🙄 and signing off “Benjamin Lastname, he/him, Useless Twat, Your MP’s office”.

I replied telling him it was useless information that should not have taken 3 months to cough up, and I didn’t care what his pronouns were and I wasn’t going to proffer mine as doing so for women tended to increase sexism in professional interactions.

Is this as rampant in the UK? It just seems so unprofessional and so “look at me!” I’ve no interest in how they hope people refer to them when they’re not there, I just want answers to my questions that they are qualified to provide.

OP posts:
Datun · 02/09/2021 14:16

ProudAlly
My company encourages us to add our preferred pronouns to our email signatures and when meeting new colleagues to say "My name is ProudAlly and my preferred pronouns are she / her / hers, what's your name?" Their explanation is that this will make others feel more comfortable in stating their preferred pronouns, if they want to. If that's true then I don't have a problem with it. I'm in favour of being inclusive.

It's not inclusive, it's sexist. If pronouns are not based on your sex, what are they based on?

If a male wants to use she/her pronouns, it must be based on them stereotyping what a woman is, in order to identify as one.

Not only that it directly affects women irrespective of gender politics.

If women are constantly forced to acknowledge their sex, where they may not want to, it will increase the sexism they experience.

Mochudubh · 02/09/2021 14:40

The organisation I work for is SW Diversity Champion. While we haven't been asked formally to state our pronouns, I've noticed more and more people doing it.

If asked I plan on saying "I don't want to be labelled" or just putting "it".

AnneLovesGilbert · 02/09/2021 14:42

You absolutely don’t have to add your pronouns to your LinkedIn profile, as I said, I recently checked mine and it was one click to decline (the ridiculous bloody suggestion).

Furx · 02/09/2021 14:53

Their explanation is that this will make others feel more comfortable in stating their preferred pronouns

I was bullied to fuck at school for being a butch weirdo. Culminating in a violent attack, broken bones (me) and police involvement (them). A common theme of the bullying was ‘are you a she or a he?…. You think you are a bloke, don’t you…‘ etc etc.

I have a visceral dislike of anyone trying to force me to state pronouns. And I very much doubt my experience is unique.

beastlyslumber · 02/09/2021 14:56

Also, why do they say she/her or he/him anyway? Anyone with a vague grasp of English grammar knows that she and her go together, you don’t need to say both.

Thank you! This does my nut in.

annacondom · 02/09/2021 15:07

I also think it's 'look at me', but I doubt Thomas in your OP had a choice. But you are right that it was irrelevant in the convo you had with he/ him. I just wish people were trained to use "you" correctly and not get their knickers in a twist with stuff like "I spoke to yourself earlier". (I know it's culturally the norm in some places. Not round here it's not. It just sounds pretentious and ignorant to me.)

MimiDaisy11 · 02/09/2021 15:11

Also, why do they say she/her or he/him anyway? Anyone with a vague grasp of English grammar knows that she and her go together, you don’t need to say both

Yes but why go with the rules of English grammar? Isn’t the whole ideology about people deciding what things mean for themselves regardless of common usage and reality.

I once watched a video stream with a woman with an obvious female name like Sarah or Claire. She actually said “my pronouns are: she…her…and hers.” With big pauses and emphasis on each one. It’s ludicrous. Who is going to be She/Her/His? lol 😂

Iveputmyselfonthenaughtystep · 02/09/2021 15:24

I was in a work meeting where HR were banging on about how the alphabet soup group had suggested that pronouns would make everybody feel more included and happier. Fortunately I'm in a job role where I was able to approach this HR person later and point out that some people might actually be uncomfortable putting pronouns, so perhaps it was best left as a matter of personal choice rather than mandated. He was so scare of offending anyone he leapt to agree with me even though I'm massively more junior. Turns out offense culture can come in handy occasionally.

I also squint a bit funny at the people who have pronouns listed in their emails. I find it interesting to see who does it.

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 15:45

I ignored then on LinkedIn and it stopped asking me.

merrymouse · 02/09/2021 15:50

Because of the ideology that surrounds it, it's not simply a woman saying 'I'm she/her not because of my biology', but more like 'I'm a woman because I 'feel' like a woman - and I like baking, high heels and fashion generally'.

Agree. It’s not just about having to draw attention to sex, it’s also about having to make a statement about identity. That really shouldn’t be forced on anyone.

I’ve always thought that this is the reason that some people don’t like single sex toilets - it feels like a statement that they don’t want to make.

SeaToSki · 02/09/2021 16:03

This just came up for my DH. After a lot of joking about funny options and smart possibilities he is just going to not put anything and if asked in person will say that he prefers to be referred to by name.

I am not working, so have more options to be sarcastic if asked. At the moment I am planning on saying that my lived experience does not concur with gender based identification methodologies. And see how they deal with that on the fly.

beastlyslumber · 02/09/2021 16:19

I hate how this pronouns business forces people to label themselves. If you're a young person confused about gender, the last thing you need is to have to make a definite statement about it every single time you communicate with someone. It's going to make it hard to change your mind, and will also have an impact on how others relate to you, which maybe you're not ready for. It's embarrassing if you're just not really sure, or you don't want other people to know anything about how you feel about your 'gender identity' for whatever reason. And it puts issues of gender, sex and identity uppermost in people's minds when they are totally irrelevant to the task at hand.

I think, though, that the vast majority of people who do this don't have any issues with their gender identity but are keen to make a statement about their politics/ideology. Brenda (she/her) who is obviously a woman just wants you to know she's woke. I suppose the only good thing about it is it lets you know who you can't trust.

EarthSight · 02/09/2021 16:21

@SeaToSki I think you. I don't think they will want to understand or start to deconstruct that sentence. Too hard = didn't think = avoid. That's a win for you in that situation.

EarthSight · 02/09/2021 16:22

@SeaToSkiI don't think they will want to understand or start to deconstruct that sentence. Too hard = didn't think = avoid. That's a win for you in that situation.

grey12 · 02/09/2021 16:27

Saying that on the phone was totally unnecessary unless it is something different like requesting to be addressed as "they"

Keke94LND · 02/09/2021 16:29

I've recently started volunteering for an online crisis charity, there's a platform that we use and volunteers have their own profiles etc, everyone is very lovely and obviously just wants to help people which is great so I don't really want to knock people but most of them have added their pronouns to their profile.. funnily enough, everyone's pronouns match their name and profile pics .. so you have to wonder, what the bloody hell is the point!?

Patapouf · 02/09/2021 17:00

I like to block people on social media who put their pronouns in their bio.
Subservient nonsense from those trying to be woke and putting 'allyship' before the interests of their natal sex.

sloanerangerpandora · 02/09/2021 18:57

This reply has been deleted

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Waitwhat23 · 02/09/2021 19:10

@sloanerangerpandora I suspect you are a women hating bigot so I'll take your comment with an immense pinch of salt.

KittenKong · 02/09/2021 19:13

@sloanerangerpandora

You sound like a vile transphobic bigot.
Really? Explain this .
MizzleEyed · 02/09/2021 20:22

Lots of people put pronouns in emails. I had a first meeting recently where we were meant to introduce ourselves and state our pronouns. About half those there just ignored that bit. Eventually the facilitator stopped pushing it and said give your promouns 'if you would like to'.

Voice0fReason · 02/09/2021 21:53

Also, why do they say she/her or he/him anyway? Anyone with a vague grasp of English grammar knows that she and her go together, you don’t need to say both.

Because some of the extra special people have pronouns of she/them or they/him.
I think it's a test.

EyesOpening · 02/09/2021 22:37

@Voice0fReason

Also, why do they say she/her or he/him anyway? Anyone with a vague grasp of English grammar knows that she and her go together, you don’t need to say both.

Because some of the extra special people have pronouns of she/them or they/him.
I think it's a test.

I read about some celebrity recently who had a mix (can't remember who or what) of pronouns and was most put out that an article about them didn't use the mix of pronouns in a suitable ratio!
KittenKong · 02/09/2021 22:49

Obviously had nothing actually of note to say then.

SkiingIsHeaven · 02/09/2021 23:00

My SIL uses pronouns. When we asked why she said that it makes her approachable to her team.

We said surely you are only approachable if you are approachable, not if you tell people that you are approachable.