The look at me of pronouns

[Ritascornershop]

Recently I’ve had two interactions that have startled me. One was with legal aid (I’m in Canada) where the young lawyer rang me and said “Hello this is Thomas from xx, my practice is x and my pronouns are he/him.” Just in case I thought someone with a male voice and whose name was Thomas might like me, when speaking to him, to refer to him in the third person as she/her. I laughed and pointed out that as I was speaking directly to him, his pronouns wouldn’t be relevant.

The other interaction was after I’d written my member of parliament’s office asking for an answer on something I couldn’t get a Ministry to answer me on. 3 months later I finally got a reply suggesting I contact that Ministry 🙄 and signing off “Benjamin Lastname, he/him, Useless Twat, Your MP’s office”.

I replied telling him it was useless information that should not have taken 3 months to cough up, and I didn’t care what his pronouns were and I wasn’t going to proffer mine as doing so for women tended to increase sexism in professional interactions.

Is this as rampant in the UK? It just seems so unprofessional and so “look at me!” I’ve no interest in how they hope people refer to them when they’re not there, I just want answers to my questions that they are qualified to provide.

Additionally, if someone really identifies with a particular, more unusual pronoun, is denying them the right to use it (if it's not on the list you get to choose from) really acceptable? Is that not denying them the right to 'bring their whole/true self to work'?

I see where you're coming from but will this not end up in a situation where so many pronouns are being used that it actually makes more sense just to always call someone by their actual name? If there are as many pronouns as people, doesn't that invalidate the whole concept of a pronoun?

Stonewall have this page - www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/international-pronouns-day which has a link to the YourPronouns website at the bottom of the page. www.mypronouns.org/ There's a fairly extensive list of pronouns listed there as examples as well as links to explanatory websites regarding neopronouns www.mypronouns.org/how

Stonewall are endorsing a wide range of gender neutral pronouns as 'valid' (quoting their website), including neopronouns. As a company who is part of the Stonewall diversity scheme, it seems rather inconsistent that your company is not following their 'inclusive' advice.

Someone just sent me this light relief. It's Friday tomorrow at least

twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1438238693869957122?s=20

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Additionally, if someone really identifies with a particular, more unusual pronoun, is denying them the right to use it (if it's not on the list you get to choose from) really acceptable? Is that not denying them the right to 'bring their whole/true self to work'?

I see where you're coming from but will this not end up in a situation where so many pronouns are being used that it actually makes more sense just to always call someone by their actual name? If there are as many pronouns as people, doesn't that invalidate the whole concept of a pronoun?

I was pointing out the inconsistency rather than calling for the use of an increasingly large number of pronouns. My point was - who decides what is acceptable? If people truly believe that preferred pronouns increases inclusivity and that people are transphobic for questioning it, how can they say some are fine and others not? Especially if it explicitly goes against what Stonewall say and particularly if their company is part of the Stonewall Diversity Champion scheme.

Great clip . Not quite sure if I should laugh or cry though

I know @Waitwhat23 and I'm not disagreeing with you. If we let people decide for themselves what is acceptable (which is the only sensible position if we have preferred pronouns) then we could end up with millions of pronouns. Which makes them irrelevant. Perhaps I can solve the box ticking dilemma by short-cutting this and saying my preferred pronouns are 'whatiswrong' and 'withmyknee' which quite frankly is an awful lot more comfortable that ticking a box which effectively gives people permission to think of me like a 1950s housewife.

@Waitwhat23

I looked at that pronoun site you shared. It's bloody awful. It says:

A person could be transgender or not transgender (also called “cisgender” - the vast majority of the population is cisgender)

So there's no option other than trans or cis and they are stating, with no supporting evidence, that the majority of people are cis. To be cis you have to have a gender identity which matches your birth sex but as most people do not have a gender identity, it cannot match. So the vast majority of people are in fact neither trans nor cis. If they can't get that right, it does make you wonder whether you should both paying attention to everything else they say.

@whatiswrongwithmyknee the next bit on that page is even worse -

'A person could be a man or a woman or both or neither and share any number of these sets of pronouns as the correct ones to use for them, but which set they go by is not necessarily indicative of their gender, even though for most people there is an association between the pronouns they go by and the gender they are.'

How many pronouns can one person possibly go by? Though didn't Halsey get really annoyed with a magazine who didn't use equal and alternating uses of the pronouns she and they? (also detailed as an option on that pronouns webite).

What I don't understand (genuinely) is how people have the time for all this. When I've worked in large offices, I've frequently forgotten people's names, let alone remembering their chosen pronouns. I really would have to carry around a cheat sheet just to keep on top of it, lest I be accused of 'transphobia' rather than someone with their own shit going on.

@Waitwhat23

Stonewall have this page - www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/international-pronouns-day which has a link to the YourPronouns website at the bottom of the page. www.mypronouns.org/ There's a fairly extensive list of pronouns listed there as examples as well as links to explanatory websites regarding neopronouns www.mypronouns.org/how

Stonewall are endorsing a wide range of gender neutral pronouns as 'valid' (quoting their website), including neopronouns. As a company who is part of the Stonewall diversity scheme, it seems rather inconsistent that your company is not following their 'inclusive' advice.

A person could be a man or a woman or both or neither and share any number of these sets of pronouns as the correct ones to use for them, but which set they go by is not necessarily indicative of their gender, even though for most people there is an association between the pronouns they go by and the gender they are.

My head hurts after reading that. How on earth can you be both man and woman or neither man or woman?

Ridiculous

We have a new senior manager at work. I had an email from her last week which said "My preferred pronouns are she/her and my preferred title is Mrs". I can't think of the last time I saw someone at work use a title in their email. I was appalled as that really is a step backwards given that mens titles have nothing. to do with their marital status whereas women's do.