GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

So I'm allowed to think that males in women's sport is ridiculous, corrupt misogyny as long as I don't say why that is, or tweet about it, or ever actually do anything to try and change the ludicrous situation we're in?

Fuck THAT.

If TRAs were upfront and honest about what trans now means

The Wi Spa incident was highly instructive over this. Initially trans activists went down the "acceptance without exception" route and when they saw the shocked reaction from people in general about what they were being told they had to accept, they quickly switched to "it never happened".

One of my problems with trans activists is they campaign for law and society to change while being completely unwilling to own up to the outcomes that will come if they succeed.

I think the derail is illuminating. A TRA calls women "cunts" on their timeline for having GC views? Totally fine. GC people post female-centred GC views? Must be silenced so trans people feel safe.

I must say I am confused by some posters here…

Only 3,000 people who think that sex matters enough to make a fuss? If you are a transwoman thinking this, I would encourage you to go to any of the conservative mosques in East London, Manchester or Birmingham. Try to mix with the women and girls, have a nice chat, see how the conversation develops.

As for the person in the bar. If a male keeps posting pictures of their naked breasts (hormone induced or implants?) on Twitter, is it really such a leap to believe them when they claim they are AGP?

Oh. Ok then,

So…. It is ok to say that the majority of people share the view that sex is immutable, and that the rights of females should be strengthened against the demands of a subset of males.

But if the majority believe these things, it also means that the people speaking about these things publicly are speaking for the majority then too?

So, I am not sure of the point.

Oh! Unless we are to believe that all TRAs who post on the internet are fully representative of all trans people? Is that it? And none of them are a threat to anyone? Those threats to Jo Rowling was part of having fun and she should know this.

So this bar attendant is representative of all trans people because we need to believe twitter people who are trans but no people who are described nebulously as ‘The GCs’?

And there is STILL only a few thousand talking on the internet, donating to crowdfunders etc. and THOSE people are harming others by speaking out and stickering and tying hateful haberdashery everywhere. Oh.. and writing letters of hate supporting women to MPs, schools and other organisations. THOSE people are threatening others through their hateful deeds.

I think I am almost there.

BilindaB, I'm sure there are plenty of women who would actively campaign but are worried about receiving rape and death threats, losing their jobs, having the police turn up at their door, threatened with having their children removed as has happened to so many women vocal about the issue (JKR, Sharron Davies, Marian Miller, Maya Forstater etc etc etc).

For some reason we are supposed to talk about shifting definitions to no purpose instead of talking about this:

www.twitter.com/search?q=(dick%20OR%20bewbs)%20(from%3Amebisdead)&src=typed_query&f=live

This is a search which finds tweets they are NSFW.

Just to say it made it to the midnight news an radio 4 last night, 1220am.

It is great that a feminist of 35 years feels the need to shame other women for supporting women’s rights. But then, I guess, I need to be brought into line with real feminist thinking ….

@nauticant

For some reason we are supposed to talk about shifting definitions to no purpose instead of talking about this:

www.twitter.com/search?q=(dick%20OR%20bewbs)%20(from%3Amebisdead)&src=typed_query&f=live

This is a search which finds tweets they are NSFW.

I don't want someoneime that in women's spaces and I don't think I'm a bigot for saying so.

Just to say it made it to the midnight news an radio 4 last night, 1220am.

What was the spin on it?

@ScreamingMeMe relatively balanced, not heard it since and report now seems to have disappeared from Edinburgh live.
Just checked and still available on R4 website.

@nauticant

For some reason we are supposed to talk about shifting definitions to no purpose instead of talking about this:

www.twitter.com/search?q=(dick%20OR%20bewbs)%20(from%3Amebisdead)&src=typed_query&f=live

This is a search which finds tweets they are NSFW.

Wow.

Hey, bilinda, help me out: do we take Twitter seriously as being a reflection on people’s true selves and beliefs or not?

If yes, then I assume that you endorse this persons view of what being trans is about, and that is who you have in mind when you are campaigning for trans rights, as you brought it up on this thread that involves this person.

If no, then I assume that your theory of The Three Thousand must be wrong, because Twitter isn’t real life and doesn’t reflect what people think and do.

Wonder which it is? 🧐

@reprehensibleme

BilindaB, I'm sure there are plenty of women who would actively campaign but are worried about receiving rape and death threats, losing their jobs, having the police turn up at their door, threatened with having their children removed as has happened to so many women vocal about the issue (JKR, Sharron Davies, Marian Miller, Maya Forstater etc etc etc).

Exactly this. THIS is what cancel culture is. When people say "Cancel Culture doesn't exist because look at JKR....she's still everywhere" blah blah.
Cancel culture is ALL the infinitely more vulnerable unknown or barely known women (and some men) who have lost their jobs, or had complaints made to their employer. Others see someone like JKR getting SO MUCH SHIT and think, I'd better not speak out. I'll keep quiet as I need to pay the mortgage.

Look at us all here anonymous on Mumsnet. I'm anonymous on Twitter.
Believe me though, in the last couple of weeks there's been a HUGE gathering of GC women behind the scenes via Twitter - gathering online but also in real life local groups. Some cities have multiple groups of 50. This is U.K. wide, originating in Scotland who have hundreds. It's a LOT of gc women. Some know everything about this and some has just peaked. We're doing so much stuff that's not even on Twitter.

@PermanentTemporary

So I'm allowed to think that males in women's sport is ridiculous, corrupt misogyny as long as I don't say why that is, or tweet about it, or ever actually do anything to try and change the ludicrous situation we're in?

Fuck THAT.

Yes. Because it is our responsibility as feminists to make sure any talking about it on the internet is not seen by those who disagree and feel threatened by such disagreement, I think.

It seems we are ok to think it, to discuss it quietly in the dark corners of real life, but never out in public. Because then we become extremists worthy of derogation, abuse and having five police officers to escort us off the premises where a male who seems hugely fascinated by their growing breasts and that they now look like their sister ‘but 20 years ago’ deemed them unworthy of patronising the place they work. Not own. But merely work.

And I mean ‘not own’ in that they don’t set policy for their establishment.

This thread has taught me a lot of new phrases. 🤢

There's probably only 2-3000 people who can explain the workings of the solar system properly and I am not one of them. But I still don't believe the earth is flat.

This is what really happened

Gosh goalposts are so easy to shift!

Helleofabore

"It is great that a feminist of 35 years feels the need to shame other women for supporting women’s rights. But then, I guess, I need to be brought into line with real feminist thinking …."

I have the sneaking suspicion, that they are the same kind of "feminist" as Owen Jones

@littlbrowndog 🤣🤣

'I am talking about 'active' GCs. Those who do campaign, protest, post their views on Twitter '

So you're saying women shouldn't campaign, protest, or post their views on Twitter?! That it's 'harmful' for women to speak out about their rights? Wow.

@littlbrowndog I heard they dumped all the flowers out of the hanging baskets and replaced them with violets, while aggressively singing the Sufragette song from Mary Poppins. Anyone who tried to stop them had a 'literal violets!!!!!' sticker slapped on to them.

For example, do I think someone should get a doctor's or similar medical expert's consent before being allowed to identify as the opposite sex? Yes, I think that would be appropriate.

Oh @BilindaB you utter transphobe. Why don't you post that on Twitter and see what happens.

I really feel for Marion Miller. As a result of this situation, she's had a woman calling her a 'middle class bitch' with too much time on her hands. This user also posted lies about her behaviour in another pub (tweet now deleted as Marion threatened legal action).

Now she's been doxxed. Her account is locked down and the person who sent the tweet has deactivated their account. The police are apparently disinterested. There's a thread about it here:

twitter.com/latsot/status/1430064135044313111?s=19

It doesn't matter where you stand on this issue, the harassment of Marion is disgusting and completely unacceptable. I can't imagine how upset and scared she must feel. She has vulnerable children. It's despicable and the police should be utterly condemned for their response.