Afghan women forced to wear burqa

[GoodieMoomin]

As the taliban continues to gain ground, the forward looking young women of Afghanistan are having to prepare for some major changes.

I cannot imagine how these women are feeling right now, watching their freedoms slip through their fingers. Honestly, I could cry.

^"My mother says we should buy a burqa. My parents are afraid of the Taliban. My mother thinks that one of the ways she can protect her daughters is to make them wear the burqa,” she says.

“But we have no burqa in our home, and I have no intention of getting one. I don’t want to hide behind a curtain-like cloth. If I wear the burqa, it means that I have accepted the Taliban’s government. I have given them the right to control me. Wearing a chador is the beginning of my sentence as a prisoner in my house. I’m afraid of losing the accomplishments I fought for so hard.”^

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/15/afghan-womens-defiance-and-despair-i-never-thought-id-have-to-wear-a-burqa-my-identity-will-be-lost

Biden is awful.

@manatsu

It makes me so upset. Our freedoms and rights as women seem so precarious. And it's all so, so stupid. People with penises decide that people with vaginas shouldn't do anything except stay at home. Why? Not for any logical reason. Pathetic. But so horrible for the poor women and girls. Especially if you've had a taste of freedom and being treated as something approaching a human being and then suddenly it's stolen away from you.

Unfortunately there is an appalling logic to it. By controlling women in this way, they ensure that any offspring are definitely their own, with the fringe benefit of being able to bully and feel superior to someone. Plus all the purity/family honour horseshit.

It’s the problem when celebrities try and give their hot take on every issue Lilly Cole they know nothing usually

If I was in the us I would not have voted democrats Bidens first act was to sign away women’s sports rights

@Mango1982

It’s the problem when celebrities try and give their hot take on every issue Lilly Cole they know nothing usually

If I was in the us I would not have voted democrats Bidens first act was to sign away women’s sports rights

For a purportedly intelligent woman Lily Cole has just shown she is anything but, along with her ridiculous I'm not straight interview garbage.

@DialSquare

I'm not particularly articulate or academic or intelligent but how thick do you have to be to not understand that what is happening in Afghanistan is exactly what we have been pointing out from the start of all this. As PP have said, women and girls are oppressed because of their sex. Our sex based protections can not be overruled by Gender Ideology because women and girls will lose those protections. It's never been about being anti Trans. It's always been about the importance of sex. Sex matters greatly and this truly horrendous situation is the horrible reality of that for many many women.

Yes

What was life like in Soviet occupied Afghanistan?

Pictures I saw from Afghanistan in the pre-Taliban 1980s showed women in western clothes, heads and faces uncovered. Like much of the Middle East before islamic fundamentalism took over. It could have been Turkey, or Iran before the ayatollahs took over.

I'm sure rural areas were more traditional, as in many countries. But remember that fundamentalist clothing is not traditional. These women's mothers may have worn scarves, but not covered their faces.

One picture that stays in mind was of women soldiers in army uniform proudly marching in a parade through Kabul, carrying their rifles, ready to defend their country. I often wonder if any of them who weren't killed in the fighting were able to hide, keep their heads down, survive in the basic way the Taliban allowed to women. Or was that too unbearable after they had known freedom?

There was a secular republic from 73-78, and that was as good as it got. The Communist coup was in 78, followed by the Soviet invasion over Christmas 79. The country was still making progress in the early 80s, if in an East German sort of way, but progress nonetheless. Then the Americans started supplying advanced weapons to bin Laden and co and it all went downhill from there.

@Etulosba

One has to wonder how the taliban can tell which people must wear a burqa, and why those who don't want to don't just self-ID as male

Is this a joke?

It's pretty obvious the point they're trying to make

Bidens first act was to sign away women’s sports rights

Yes, that was a disgrace. School sports offered American girls (and boys) from low-income backgrounds the chance to go to university on a sports scholarship, as well as all the other rewards of making it into elite sports. Now boys are taking the medals, and rewards, in girls' sports.

So no surprise that he's throwing Afghanistan to the wolves.

Why has the middle east been taken over by fundamentalists? Is there an idiots guide i can read? Not intending to derail there is just so much i don't know

@GoodieMoomin

One has to wonder how the taliban can tell which people must wear a burqa, and why those who don't want to don't just self-ID as male

Not everything is an excuse to promote transphobia. Please have some respect.

Article here on Afghanistan in the 70s/80s

www.peoplesworld.org/article/afghanistans-socialist-years-the-promising-future-killed-off-by-u-s-imperialism/?fbclid=IwAR0zhnnwF598vnwMHRz8NKC_zGDa7-VL8t4o91OWf6iwfK3w7d8kS5RecHU

@Tuscancat

Why has the middle east been taken over by fundamentalists? Is there an idiots guide i can read? Not intending to derail there is just so much i don't know

I'd suggest "From Fatwa To Jihad" by Kenan Malik.

....and the first two episodes of Adam Curtis "The Power of Nightmares"

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p088s5k4

@LastSummerHere

Chaotica...that's not a plus! Having to hide books wtf? Women are like cats (or actually, cats are like women which I guess is why they're called feline)...we need to be free to truly live.

I wasn't trying to sell it as a plus at all. But in the absolute shit of 1990s Afghanistan the ability to hide in plain sight meant that some very very brave women managed to do things because of the burqa. Women who were members of RAWA or reporters or who kept teaching schools for girls or studying for themselves.

I think it is an international outrage that Afghani women had to live like this then and even more so that they've been abandoned to it now. I met a few Afghani women students in the late 1980s and often wondered what happened to them if they went home.

@DialSquare

I'm not particularly articulate or academic or intelligent but how thick do you have to be to not understand that what is happening in Afghanistan is exactly what we have been pointing out from the start of all this. As PP have said, women and girls are oppressed because of their sex. Our sex based protections can not be overruled by Gender Ideology because women and girls will lose those protections. It's never been about being anti Trans. It's always been about the importance of sex. Sex matters greatly and this truly horrendous situation is the horrible reality of that for many many women.

You seem perfectly articulate and intelligent to me @DialSquare

I'm not particularly articulate or academic or intelligent but how thick do you have to be to not understand that what is happening in Afghanistan is exactly what we have been pointing out from the start of all this. As PP have said, women and girls are oppressed because of their sex. Our sex based protections can not be overruled by Gender Ideology because women and girls will lose those protections. It's never been about being anti Trans. It's always been about the importance of sex. Sex matters greatly and this truly horrendous situation is the horrible reality of that for many many women.

Absolutely. There are few clearer demonstrations that sex does matter.

Not everything is an excuse to promote transphobia. Please have some respect.

You PumpkinSpiceWoman, TRAs, and anyone pushing gender ideology asking for respect is a fucking joke. Your behaviour and rhetoric is the polar opposite of respectful or worthy of any respect whatsoever.

I might get flak for this, and kinda embarrassed to say:

First off, I do not think any woman should be forced to wear a burqa. And obviously there's the religious aspect to it. But I have read that some muslim women actually like them and prefer them. So they should be allowed to wear them, if they truly want to. I read one time that some of the muslim girls feel safer in burqas and related garb vs the skimpy sexualized Western clothes.

With that said, I honestly wouldn't mind wearing a burqa every time I left, for the reason of it feeling safer (obviously you can be attacked regardless of what you wear). But no men, no human, can even look at your body. I like that idea. The forcing it and the religious and abusive-misogynistic undertones and history to it, no, do not like that. But as pure ideological concept of hiding your body so nobody can see it...I honestly love that idea. I'm not gonna go around in a burqa cuz I'm not muslim and I'd feel I'd be being disrespectful...also cuz muslim people anyway get abuse cuz of their religion. But just in terms of clothing options, I'm not gonna lie, I like it and would do it if it became a fashion. Some of us feel better hiding and more empowered hiding our bodies. It shouldn't have to be that way, but til reality is safer for women...

Anyway, just putting that out there that some muslim women even if not forced, would want to wear these garbs. And when I read about how they don't understand the West's view of the burqas etc being oppressive cuz to them the West's idea of freedom is going around half naked all the time? Yeah, I do see the appeal for some women to WANT to wear them. I know Westerner's hate that idea, but -shrugs- one person's idea of empowerment and freedom is another's prison and oppression. Choice is the key word here.

In the West you are derided as a woman if you cover up. "look more grown up", means look more sexual, show more skin. Not everyone thinks that is freedom or empowering. No, you shouldn't HAVE to cover up to feel safe or ok out and about, but since male predators are everywhere, people have to do something.

Those poor muslim women need the freedom of choice and autonomy. Their clothes I don't think are the real issue. It's just a symptom. But, seriously, I bet I'm not the only one who wishes our society prized covering up almost totally as a "normal" thing. Obviously some muslim women probably hate the garbs, but some do feel safer in them, for legit reasons.

also some people like their religious clothes for religious reasons. Think of Nuns' habits. The Muslim women just need autonomy and choice and I'm sure you'd see some keep some of their old practices cuz they legit like them and some discard them.

@GoodieMoomin

One has to wonder how the taliban can tell which people must wear a burqa, and why those who don't want to don't just self-ID as male

I don't think any trans people would be risking being found out tbh. The taliban has performed hideous things on gay people and I imagine most trans people will fear similar reprisals.

I'd imagine most will attempt to flee or return to their natal sex.

I'm mostly afraid for the women in the media/civil service who are having their doors painted red. Many say they are waiting to be killed.

Watching the wonderful Clarissa Ward on CNN, there has by all accounts been a run on burqas at the Kabul branch of Primark or its equivalent, and no wonder.

The PR-Trained New Taliban say women may choose to dress in a binbag, 'for their own security,' which if it means not getting a 7.62mm magazine emptied into your face, would seem prudent.

In Life, one always has a choice, but too often it is not a very nice one.

@WinglessSonglessBird I agree that the dress should be a matter of choice, although I've always thought burqa is too extreme as it covers your face and eyes so no-one can even see your expressions. That does make it difficult to interact with others as an equal. (Apparently, women in Kabul used to carry patterned umbrellas so that they could be told apart.) Hijab on the other hand is just a way of covering up which should be acceptable if you want to do so.

Feminists who I've met from Iran and Pakistan have always stressed that the dress isn't the main problem, it's all the other inequalities.

@CorianderBee

I'm mostly afraid for the women in the media/civil service who are having their doors painted red. Many say they are waiting to be killed.

That is terrifying.