Afghan women forced to wear burqa

[GoodieMoomin]

As the taliban continues to gain ground, the forward looking young women of Afghanistan are having to prepare for some major changes.

I cannot imagine how these women are feeling right now, watching their freedoms slip through their fingers. Honestly, I could cry.

^"My mother says we should buy a burqa. My parents are afraid of the Taliban. My mother thinks that one of the ways she can protect her daughters is to make them wear the burqa,” she says.

“But we have no burqa in our home, and I have no intention of getting one. I don’t want to hide behind a curtain-like cloth. If I wear the burqa, it means that I have accepted the Taliban’s government. I have given them the right to control me. Wearing a chador is the beginning of my sentence as a prisoner in my house. I’m afraid of losing the accomplishments I fought for so hard.”^

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/15/afghan-womens-defiance-and-despair-i-never-thought-id-have-to-wear-a-burqa-my-identity-will-be-lost

My response to a question on another thread.

looking an Afgani woman in the eyes, what connects their suffering with our struggles here?

The embodied reality of womanhood that transcends time, distance and cultures. She is me and I am her. It is a visceral bond that no male can ever identify into and no female can ever identify out of.

It is only an accident of fate that I live in the UK. I am one of the rare winners in the grotesque lottery of life.

Life for women in the UK has been shaped by its own cultural and religious heritage. Its relatively unique and rare historical trajectory enabled British women to organise and win incredible gains for their daughters in a way that women from so many other countries can only dream of doing.

The plight of Afghani women is a stark reminder of the iron fist of oppression that men can wield against women on the basis of our sex. It is an uncomfortable truth that without the majority of men on our side, women truly are at the mercy of the vicious whims and savage violence of men.

My heart breaks for the women of Afghanistan - so many of them had a taste of freedom, opportunity and being a person in their own right, and now it has evaporated almost overnight. I know what is happening to them could happen to me too, if circumstances enabled it. The incel attack in Plymouth reveals the deep hatred and desires of subjugation that some men harbour for women.

Far too many women in the UK take their precious freedoms for granted. Yes, there's much that can be better, but it's important to realise just how rare it is to live in a time and place where women have so many rights and protections within a stable, wealthy society and where most men view us as worthy of full personhood.

Some women are so intoxicated by these freedoms - freedoms they themselves did not win - that they think it's great fun to indulge in all kinds of outlandish luxury beliefs, such as biological sex being a social construct, women are not oppressed on the basis of sex, and that being a woman is nothing but a feeling and set of sexist stereotypes. They have feasted at the table of liberty for so long that they think they can ignore reality by chanting mantras and 'queering' words. Bloated by their gluttony, they cheer the erosion of the same rights and protections that enabled their arrogance and ignorance. Their fingers and mouths greasy with the remnants of the fruits of labour of the women that came before them, they sneer at those who understand the precarious nature of our rights and personhood and seek to protect it. They might belch out insults and smears in between mouthfuls, but deep in their hearts they know they would never willingly trade places with the women of Afghanistan, because all the queer theory in the world won't save them from the slaughterhouse.

Great post Nonnymouse

Some women are so intoxicated by these freedoms - freedoms they themselves did not win - that they think it's great fun to indulge in all kinds of outlandish luxury beliefs, such as biological sex being a social construct, women are not oppressed on the basis of sex, and that being a woman is nothing but a feeling and set of sexist stereotypes. They have feasted at the table of liberty for so long that they think they can ignore reality by chanting mantras and 'queering' words. Bloated by their gluttony, they cheer the erosion of the same rights and protections that enabled their arrogance and ignorance. Their fingers and mouths greasy with the remnants of the fruits of labour of the women that came before them, they sneer at those who understand the precarious nature of our rights and personhood and seek to protect it. They might belch out insults and smears in between mouthfuls, but deep in their hearts they know they would never willingly trade places with the women of Afghanistan, because all the queer theory in the world won't save them from the slaughterhouse.

Fabulous post, Nonnymouse

Bluntly, there aren't enough non-Taliban men in Afghanistan to fight against their ideology. There aren't enough who would actually like some semblance of democracy or to see their daughters educated and independent. I wonder if push came to shove how many men here would actually physically fight for our rights?

@WarriorN

I can't find it now but there was a terrifying piece about women who've become divorced in Afghanistan.

Under recent rules they could gain employment and rent a house etc. In tbe past they had to have a male do these things for them.

They have been shunned by family and many have lost family.

They will need a male to allow them to do many of these things now and fear for their lives.

The anti-divorce culture of Afghanistan is a hangover of it’s Hindu / Pathan past and goes against Islam / Qu’ran. Even the Burkha is a Hindu tradition. The dancing boy culture is even more ancient and again anti-Islam.

The problem with Afghanistani Islam has always been that the imams there don’t understand or know how to apply the Qu’ran. And the modern day Taliban hate Saudis so much they won’t allow any religious guidance (but are willing to buy weapons from them or sell them drugs). It’s a ridiculous situation that the Islamic world isn’t doing anything about this.

@NonnyMouse1337

My response to a question on another thread.

looking an Afgani woman in the eyes, what connects their suffering with our struggles here?

The embodied reality of womanhood that transcends time, distance and cultures. She is me and I am her. It is a visceral bond that no male can ever identify into and no female can ever identify out of.

It is only an accident of fate that I live in the UK. I am one of the rare winners in the grotesque lottery of life.

Life for women in the UK has been shaped by its own cultural and religious heritage. Its relatively unique and rare historical trajectory enabled British women to organise and win incredible gains for their daughters in a way that women from so many other countries can only dream of doing.

The plight of Afghani women is a stark reminder of the iron fist of oppression that men can wield against women on the basis of our sex. It is an uncomfortable truth that without the majority of men on our side, women truly are at the mercy of the vicious whims and savage violence of men.

My heart breaks for the women of Afghanistan - so many of them had a taste of freedom, opportunity and being a person in their own right, and now it has evaporated almost overnight. I know what is happening to them could happen to me too, if circumstances enabled it. The incel attack in Plymouth reveals the deep hatred and desires of subjugation that some men harbour for women.

Far too many women in the UK take their precious freedoms for granted. Yes, there's much that can be better, but it's important to realise just how rare it is to live in a time and place where women have so many rights and protections within a stable, wealthy society and where most men view us as worthy of full personhood.

Some women are so intoxicated by these freedoms - freedoms they themselves did not win - that they think it's great fun to indulge in all kinds of outlandish luxury beliefs, such as biological sex being a social construct, women are not oppressed on the basis of sex, and that being a woman is nothing but a feeling and set of sexist stereotypes. They have feasted at the table of liberty for so long that they think they can ignore reality by chanting mantras and 'queering' words. Bloated by their gluttony, they cheer the erosion of the same rights and protections that enabled their arrogance and ignorance. Their fingers and mouths greasy with the remnants of the fruits of labour of the women that came before them, they sneer at those who understand the precarious nature of our rights and personhood and seek to protect it. They might belch out insults and smears in between mouthfuls, but deep in their hearts they know they would never willingly trade places with the women of Afghanistan, because all the queer theory in the world won't save them from the slaughterhouse.

One of the best posts I've ever read, NonnyMouse, perfect.

Whilst women and girls in Afghanistan are facing the imposition of brutal and unrelenting oppression on the basis of their sex, TRAs and their supine cheerleaders here in the West are whinging about pronouns and weeping over using the term woman to only describe an adult human female, contemptible each and every one of them.

@Imnobody4

The Taliban are promising an 'inclusive government'. It's interesting to see them adopting the language of western liberalism. This really goes to the heart of post modernism doesn't it, the power of language to name things?

That struck fear into my heart this morning.

I have heard a lot over the last couple of days, from women who came here 20 years ago, about women friends and family in Kabul etc, their fears, what they have already experienced... and hearing the claim of 'inclusive government' scared the shit out of me.

It wil be only too easy for any governemnt to take that at face value. Post covid, with all that every country already has going in on, how much of a relief would it be to be able to believe that, quote it, repeat it, and to open up a long distance dialogue based on it?

Meanwhile every women screams to be heard...

Wow NonnyMouse1337 that's too good a post to be lost on a thread here.
deep in their hearts they know they would never willingly trade places with the women of Afghanistan, because all the queer theory in the world won't save them from the slaughterhouse.

@NonnyMouse1337 your words brought me to tears (for the second time this morning) I’m going to save them on my phone.
I hate this world today. I searched for anything we can do and nothing. Only thing I found was an article from 2 weeks ago and so much has happened since, any kind of aid we send will only go to the Taliban.
What’s more upsetting is how few people care. I want to go and rescue those women and girls, I feel so useless

Thanks everyone. I cannot describe without getting banned how deeply I despise gender identity ideology / queer theory and those who support it. I spent the first half of my life in the Middle East and India. These 'professional / intersectional / queer feminist' types are not fit to clean the feet of the women in so many countries who live with the realities of oppression. They wouldn't last a day with the hardships I've known women there face. spits

@Beowulfa

Bluntly, there aren't enough non-Taliban men in Afghanistan to fight against their ideology. There aren't enough who would actually like some semblance of democracy or to see their daughters educated and independent. I wonder if push came to shove how many men here would actually physically fight for our rights?

They are all fleeing the country. It you look at images of the chaos at the airport they are all men.

This will possibly get removed but I’m going to say it anyway
I hate mankind. I hate that our world is ruled by such evil. I hate that half our world population don’t understand and will never comprehend what life is like for the other half

Excellent post Nonnymouse.

Have felt so helpless the past few days. Written to my MP to ask they keep the subject at the forefront of Parliament not just now but for the many months and years ahead.

I feel so angry and upset for Afghan women and girls today. I feel so angry and upset for the children. This is true oppression, oppression that they can’t identify out of.

Did men ever fight for women's rights? The suffragettes were women. Also, those at the back of this backlash which aims at reducing women's rights are men's rights activists. In whatever guise they present. Those who want to destroy those rights women have fought for. Even the ability to correctly name our sex class.

You'd think as fathers, sons, husbands and brothers that men would have wanted equal rights and respect for women and girls all along. But no ... . It does make me pause, that one.

When it comes to women's rights and anti discrimination, men want to try and obfuscate women as a class. When it comes to oppression, they don't pretend it is complex to identify who they are discriminating against.

NonnyMouse has put into words so passionately and eloquently what many of us are feeling. Can someone tech minded please archive this so it isn't ever lost. Thank you NonnyMouse.

Nonny your post was so eloquent and bang on. I've screenshotted it, I don't want to lose it.

I agree with you 100% btw. But also would probably get banned if I said what I thought.

"There would be no women in the whole of Afghanistan if it were possible to opt out"

I thought this too. Also, even if they could, wouldn't the extremists just kill them anyway cuz they would know they were born female, can be enslaved raped have kids etc.? Even if the girls were allowed to have surgeries to physically present as male, and have no inner female parts, don't you think they would get killed anyway, if found out?

And yes, sorry, but I bet 99% of TW would all of a sudden find their inner man if they found themselves in the middle east. Or say, if UK and USA societies, God forbid, were like this, I bet there'd be very, very few TW. And I still think those regimes would kill TM for daring to deny the men their cattle (the women) by opting out even if they could visually present as one.

It is a priveleged way of thinking to believe you can opt of sex. You can have any internal gender mindset, but in real life you cannot opt out of sex. Only way that's gonna happen is if all humans minds are put into identical, sexless robot bodies. And STILL there would probably be oppression based off SOMETHING, maybe. But bar having identical truly sexless bodies and having test-tube-lab babies, sex is gonna be linked with power, and always in the man's favor, cuz that's reality on Earth, until further notice, which is definitely NOT now or near future.

I wonder what Afghan girls, women think of the West's gender ideology and trans stuff. Maybe they are shielded from Western stuff so don't know? Would be interesting. I bet you most of them would say if they could've truly opted out of their sex they would've. The only reason people here can opt out of their sex is cuz we have a nicer, fairer government and society in general, as far as sex equality. I doubt there would've been many TW even here say before women's voting rights, by law having to have husband's signatures, etc. I could be wrong.

To be able to identify with something or not, requires freedom in the first place. So yeah, it is a Western privilege, which isn't necessarily bad to have privileges but they should be seen as such and not some immutable truth. Or recognize that Western society is dealing with it's own issues and people are having severe mental problems and coping skills, and this is how it's playing out, here, in Western countries. Also, I bet many Afghan women would see how the TRA is bent to favor MEN, and leave women/girls, gay people at a disempowered state.

And LOL, I bet there are not many Afghan MEN who are TW. Cuz who would opt into oppression, being murdered, etc, cuz of your sex? Even the poor gay guys get killed. But I doubt many want to visually advertise they are more feminine!

A good debate between some TW and Afghan women might do some good to get everyone on any side of it thinking about all sides' issues, concerns. To me the way the mass culture portrays the trans thing does seem to be about power, for MEN. And the true TW who just wanna live their lives and not oppress or cause problems or take from biological women lose out too, and them I support.

"You'd think as fathers, sons, husbands and brothers that men would have wanted equal rights and respect for women and girls all along. But no ... . It does make me pause, that one."

I've wondered this too, and still can't figure it out! I can only assume that men for so long are in their Men-only-and-the-best-entitled-to-all mindset that they don't even see their sisters, mothers, wives as real people? They are just property etc too?

Had a guy say some shit about women that was messed up, and I called him out, and said, dude, you have a daughter what if some dude said that shit to her? His response, in a shrug-shoulders way was, "I'm sure they probably do." and that was that. end of.

And I've had some very kind men who even say women shouldn't be attacked etc. But when they are it is usually the girl's fault, no matter what. They KNOW they don't have to take responsibility. And most men never challenge other men. I think cuz they know they also benefit massively from this dynamic of women as cattle, women as weak, dumb, oppressed.

Think about the outrage when it was suggested by a women in American politics (sorry, don't remember exact who and details), that part of the government be ALL women. The outrage. But it was pointed out that until not long ago it was ALL men. But even women were enraged at having part of the government branch be all women. I don't know if this was raised just to make a point, probably. Same with race. The rage people get if having a governing body be all black. But if or when they are all white, no biggie. Obviously probably a mixture of people is best. The default is straight white male, I mean for everything. No offense to straight white men at all, many are awesome. It is a historical fact though that it has driven human policies on everything, even healthcare trials are based off mostly straight white men (maybe less so nowadays, dunno).

Literally, I think it's gonna get to a point where humans both male, female, anything are gonna identify and opt out of bodies all together and out of being what we, today, know and call "human." I think all humans, especially females, are sooo traumatized, mostly cuz of living in bodies and mostly cuz of fellow jerk humans, that I do think this will end, for humanity as a whole, as most or all people opting out of bodies completely. Like in robots. Or your mind is just a computer. Transhumanism. Personally, I feel it's the best solution. You can't opt out of your sex, but maybe in the future you can opt out of your body altogether. I'd be intrigued and tempted to do it, tbh. I hate the disgusting meat sack I'm trapped in and it's only function is to be abused, derided, nit-picked both literally and ideologically, for life. And then of course physical pain. I believe we are witnessing the end of the human body, as we know it, and personally the end result I feel might be WAY better for people's minds, hearts, souls, and safety.

If the Afghan women could opt out of a human body, I bet they would asap, or most would.

Nonnymouse thank you for your post. Putting into words so articulately.

Tibtom: the men fleeing. I saw that too. Cowards, the lot, and it's usually the men that are all, "but us men are brave, strong, etc etc." Either cowards or also hate women. Well, maybe to them the women are objects so it's just like stuff getting smashed in a war, like a chair. omg, awful!! I bet if a bunch of male soldiers were held hostage or etc they'd fight to get em back? Or are there hostages there being left to their fate? I'm not sure.

And brothers, husbands, dads, friends etc in Western nations rarely fight for the women either. If they won't do it in a relatively safe, for them, country, I doubt they would there when they could be murdered for it. So when wars are fought and everyone's like, omg the women and children, actually their property collateral damage or not worth the risk and people want to opt IN to that? Only priveleged societies can you choose which aspect of a sex or gender you want to opt in to, and leave all the dangerous icky parts out. That'd be like opting into being black when you're not, but with no racism that's dangerous to you. Not sure why anyone would wanna opt into being, what essentially is prey as women seem to be. Unless you take the shiny, glittery aspects and, through privilege and freedoms, are able to discard the rest. Also how is that a true woman then? Or even the reverse, for TM, a true man? So you experience nothing all women, or men, go through for millions of years but you are one. I'm not saying they don't cuz I would not know, just trying to understand. Maybe it shouldn't matter if TW and TM are TRUE, cuz that's never been defined. Matters how you feel inside. The issue, as I've seen it, is when that ideology disrupts others' rights (women/girls, and also gay/lesbian). Nobody in society probably would've cared about this stuff so much if it weren't for the eroding of others' hard-won (and necessary) rights cuz of it. And many trans people themselves don't support that aspect of it.

Again, I still think a good, cordial debate between Afghan women and TW and TM would highlight each side's issues nicely and concretely. Here you could opt out of being a woman and be TM but even if you feel you're a man on the inside, in Afghanistan, for ex, that won't mean shit. You got xx chromosomes, you are enslaved, killed etc no matter wtf your mind says you are, in real life. It's just more obvious in extreme countries, this concept? I still didn't understand it fully, though the terrible Afghan plight has made me think more on it.

Roseismadder: I am not a fan of humanity and any aliens that visit I will profusely apologize for being one. Humans suck. We better hope humans aren't graded as a whole, cuz we failed. And men, percentage-wise, even worse than women. Humans are the scariest animals on earth. I hope to never be a human again, if I have any say, lol.

You'd think as fathers, sons, husbands and brothers that men would have wanted equal rights

I’ve always thought this idea to be too optimistic and naive. It was my brother and father who made me into a feminist with their sexism.

I just don't know where mangoontoast and our other educators have gone.

They are only too happy to berate us about toilets. Why aren't they here, educating us about gender identity and how women in Afghanistan can benefit from it by opting out of their oppression?