Why do some men hate women?

[Nightmarenextdoor]

Not sure that’s the right question or if this is the right place but it’s been nagging away at me since reading about the Plymouth shootings because it resonates so much with my experiences in online dating.

I’ve spoken to so many men that remind me of that guy - obviously not as extreme but who are for some reason (often the way they look but also just being ‘different’) not ticking the boxes for women. They haven’t generally ticked any for me either and in fact I’m not getting many matches myself but it doesn’t fill me with hatred for every man (although I am pretty cynical about it).

And then there’s the way people behave - I’ve heard women do it too but men are just so brutal, so completely disregarding of feelings or manners, and if you don’t look or behave like their idea of what a woman should you either get ‘what you deserve’ - whatever their version of that is - or are ignored completely.

I count myself very much as a feminist but I’m not up on everything that gets discussed on here. This really worries me though, I’m a single mum raising a daughter and I feel the future for us is bleak and scary in terms of how men view us - at best we’ll get one who ‘only’ expects us to look amazing and be open minded in bed as a minimum, at worst it’ll be one who despises us just for being female.

I had to Google incel, and was shocked to discover they regard it as women’s fault, rather than their own.

Anyone in the cult needs shutting down and sectioning! That’s seriously messed up!

I know, it's scary. I've a son and a daughter (also a single parent) and obviously in our home being a woman is valued, but I worry that my son will pick up ''hate'' on line.

So the basis of their hatred for women is that they're not getting sex?
And for that, they hate the people that they want the sex from? Even the old ones, the ugly ones? the fat ones? It's all so hard to understand.

I don't know for sure. But it seems like some.men feel like women should bow to them and like women owe them relationships and sex.
When they try to talk to women, they're weird entitled ment comes.across and they seem creepy. (Has anyone ever met a creepy guy? I have lots)

So they end up resenting women for not giving them what they believe they deserve.

Thing is, I don't think they even want a partner. They want a porn looking woman that won't answer back or be real. A real woman would likely scare them.

That shooter, I'm not using his name, he worked out thinking that's all he needed to do to get sex... He should have worked on his personality.

It's really confusing because most of them could probably get sex if they were just "normal". It's seems like there's an entitlement or expectation & there life hasn't worked as expected (who's does) but they blame that on women.

If their that desperate for sex why did they never hire a hooker? I know there is so much wrong with that sentence, but I’d rather do that than go shoot random people in the street.

The whole thing doesn’t make sense, you get plenty of females into their 20’s who are also virgins, is that all the menz fault?

R4 now

The whole thing doesn’t make sense, you get plenty of females into their 20’s who are also virgins, is that all the menz fault?

Exactly!

I don't think the pornofication of society & social media helps as some men seem to just see women as objects

Jane Clare Jones' Twitter thread on a relevant discussion:

archive.is/YvHj7

I think they’re angry, horrible men, in general and because they are like that, women obviously and rightly want nothing to do with them. They then blame women for their own lack of sex/relationship, rather than looking at themselves.

We also live in a deeply misogynistic society where we don’t even have hate directed towards women as a crime!
Society and laws need to change so these men know they will face consequences.

Most women have no idea how much men hate us. We are viewed as sub-human.

male and female people with no self-awareness whatsoever project all of their failings outwards and incels are doig this. It's so depressing.

I agree that the law needs to show clearly that hating on, demonising (''stacies'') blaming, threatening (and not just murdering) women who do not want to sleep with these awful men is going to be penalised by the law.

I have no idea what drives these men, but I do wonder if they are lashing out against a world that is on the one hand giving them a horrible, violent, objectified and pornified view of women (not just in porn but in insidious every day places like such tripe as love island) whilst they are also witnessing men’s power in the real world (education attainment and workplaces to name but two) start to diminish as women have gained more equality of opportunity. I subscribe to the Telegraph online (as well as other more left wing papers) to get a range of views and they published a headline after the GCSE results stating that “girls are just cleverer than boys”. The comments underneath were so horrific and misogynistic that I had to close it and stop reading. If you are an angry man who isn’t succeeding at life and doesn’t take responsibility for your failings there are plenty fans to flame that fire of hatred and resentment in everyday mainstream media. RIP all the poor innocent victims.

Sorry to hear you’ve had rotten experiences with online dating etc.

There are good men out there.

As for your question though, sadly you’re right, there’s a whole book on it:

www.hive.co.uk/Product/Laura-Bates/Men-Who-Hate-Women--From-incels-to-pickup-artists-the-tru/24602154

Also, for info, it’s worth being aware of the Rules of Misogyny:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3236421-so-these-ere-rules-of-misogyny

@LitPearl

I know, it's scary. I've a son and a daughter (also a single parent) and obviously in our home being a woman is valued, but I worry that my son will pick up ''hate'' on line.

So the basis of their hatred for women is that they're not getting sex?
And for that, they hate the people that they want the sex from? Even the old ones, the ugly ones? the fat ones? It's all so hard to understand.

In their world, women can get sex any time they like, even the "old" and "ugly" ones. We are the "gatekeepers" and treat the poor menz who aren't total alphas like crap, because we have so much power.

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]Jane Clare Jones' Twitter thread on a relevant discussion:

archive.is/YvHj7[/quote]
Adding a review of the upcoming (Aug 19) publication of Does Anyone Have the Right to Sex? (essay was published in LRB in 2018):

These events inspired Amia Srinivasan to write an essay, Does Anyone Have the Right to Sex?, published in the London Review of Books, that caused quite a stir. Rodger, she argued, raised an issue we needed to tackle. There had, she said, been plenty of feminist commentary on “the incel phenomenon” (short for “involuntary celibate”) and “male sexual entitlement, objectification and violence”. Yet there hadn’t been nearly so much on the “ideological shaping” of desire. Whose bodies, she asks, “confer status on those who have sex with them”? And what do we do about the racism, ableism and transphobia that “makes its way into the bedroom through the seemingly innocuous mechanism of ‘personal preference’”?

The Right to Sex by Amia Srinivasan review — when did intimacy become such a minefield?
The confusing world of desire is put under the microscope by a controversial writer

archive: archive.is/OjtAt

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-right-to-sex-by-amia-srinivasan-review-3d9njsrqb

I worry that a lot of men feel this way about women, but most of them reluctantly adhere to social norms because it makes a nice easy life for them, not because they actually believe that women are equal or even worthy of respect. You only have to look at the way so many "normal, respectable" men talk and behave in male spaces, "locker room talk" etc.

These "incels" are just one branch, who probably lack the social skills to "play the game". We all know that most men who have a total contempt for women do manage to find multiple partners, often through a very calculated, manipulative love bombing phase. And then proceed make their lives a living hell.

Ps I do of course know a large number of genuinely decent men. But I also know a large number who are not, and who I believe would be vulnerable to this kind of radicalisation, or who at least would quickly become emboldened in expressing their true beliefs with just a small shift in social norms.

@76FDre421 I agree that many men are threatened by the fact that women can leave independent lives.

I do think subconsciously there's still a lot of thinking around that suggests that women aren't really people.

Also, with the messages given by the media and upbringing some guys confuse 'wanting to fuck women' with 'liking women' and are all 'hey, I love women!' when they don't actually regard them as full human beings.

Currently we are negotiating a period of women emerging from being chattel (yes, still) and some men have difficulty dealing with that, so rather than being productive and thinking of how they can be better people, they translate it into hating women.

Male entitlement, which has it's roots in every aspect of our society. Their reaction to being "denied" sex and adoration is anger.

Even in middle age I am still surprised by men I know who don't like women speaking their own mind! I was at an extended family BBQ recently and the alpha male was dominating the conversations and belittling women in various 'humourous' ways. One of the women cut him down with a quick witted comment, and everyone laughed, at him and I swear the look on his face, a quick flash of hatred, before he fumbled around for some lame comeback.

His own wife at one point laughed at some thing he said and just mumbled 'its easier to go along with him'. 🙄 my own DM is similar with my DF, anything for an easy life! 'Oh you know what your dads like... it's easier not to argue'. Fuck. That. Shit. Will all of them!

Same men and others are often, victim blames and rape apologists!

In their world, women can get sex any time they like, even the "old" and "ugly" ones. We are the "gatekeepers" and treat the poor menz who aren't total alphas like crap, because we have so much power.

I’m getting older and the attractiveness of youth has long left me behind. It’s possibly true that I could get sex, but I have little interest in sex for its own sake and definitely have no interest is sex with someone I don’t find attractive. This utter value placed on “getting sex” is a bizarre concept to me.

I also feel a double standard is being applied here. I could get sex, but would have to be unfussy over who it was with. I can’t imagine that a young, not unattractive man like the recent Plymouth killer couldn’t have got sex with someone, but he probably wants more than just sex with any old woman. He probably could have got a girlfriend, had he bothered to get out from obsessing behind his computer and gone out and made an effort see women as human beings and not evil bitches who were determined to thwart him. He even said that he’d had plenty of interest from girls at school. It sounds like these young men sit on their computers and obsess over things that would likely actually be solved by getting out into the world and meeting people.

It's a sense of entitlement. They feel entitled not only to sex but to sex with young women who meet their (usually very exacting) standard of attractiveness.

They blame women as they have massive insecurities. It is always easier to blame someone else or an entire group of people rather than be brutally honest with yourself and really look within take ownership and fix yourself/your issue. I am sure there are many more men who think like that evil man but keep it quiet or post it anonymously online. We need to bring up our girls confidently to hold their ground and bring up our boys to be respectful and open minded in views and open minded to self change.

@Echobelly

I do think subconsciously there's still a lot of thinking around that suggests that women aren't really people.

Also, with the messages given by the media and upbringing some guys confuse 'wanting to fuck women' with 'liking women' and are all 'hey, I love women!' when they don't actually regard them as full human beings.

Currently we are negotiating a period of women emerging from being chattel (yes, still) and some men have difficulty dealing with that, so rather than being productive and thinking of how they can be better people, they translate it into hating women.

Agree. Men who "love" women are often very few steps removed from men who hate women.

This actually drags up a lot of memories for me that I can't quite articulate, but it basically involves loud, narcissistic, misogynistic men holding court, never letting a woman get a word in edgewise, but being totally excused this behaviour because they smile and laugh a lot, and are fairly kind to their wife while she's running around waiting on them hand and foot.

I think the men who hate women exhibit behaviour like this, I also think that there are a lot of women who hate men and exhibit equally toxic but very different behaviours - manipulative and not violent. I think quite a few men and women feed off this poisonous dynamic in both directions. It is very sad and depressing. It is getting worse and worse.