Interesting experience with public toilets

[Rosalisa]

Presented with just one comment. I had to fly from Scotland to London last week. Bit bleary and unfamiliar with Luton. Inadvertently opened the door to the men's, I was met with horror so backed out, no bother.

Into the women's. Where a man was coming out of a cubicle, short hair, no make-up, t shirt and jeans, beard. Perfectly pleasant but completely unchallenged by anyone including the male attendant.

I think I've been really sheltered in the highlands.

No thank you.

@GCAcademic

Wow, someone actually described rape (and a poster's experience thereof) as "a trump card".

On a feminist forum.

You're disgusting.

Unbelievable, isn't it?

As someone once said, treat it like stepping on gum on the pavement: stop, examine the underside of your shoe, sigh & keep walking.

There was a recent interesting thread about women being scared by men when the man hadn't actually intended to - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4312740-Have-there-been-times-a-man-has-made-you-feel-scared-without-intending-to?pg=1

Because the point is that not all men (obviously) but there are enough men who do hurt women that we constantly risk assess, even in situations where we realise later that the man doesn't actually mean any harm. And as noted on the above thread, there are men who will intentionally scare women (incels boast about it) because they can. A man being in a woman's single sex space is obviously going to be a factor in that risk assessing because he shouldn't be there.

Those who have experienced trauma are obviously going to experience a massively heightened sense of that risk assessing and fear so to see a poster describing rape as a 'trump card' is nauseating.

Please stop. This thread is about men in womens toilets, not how to Police people's posts. You can have the last word. Nobody cares. Take it. Help yourself.

But if you have nothing relevant to say, STFU.

I would be terrified, and at best, in a busy daytime setting, very wary.

A man who goes into a woman’s bathroom is one I would automatically be wary of because they are already transgressing a boundary and disregarding women’s feelings.

As a woman these are feelings to be minimised and mocked, but all of the men I know make the exact same distinction. They would not use a woman’s space and distrust men who do. It’s a clear red flag to them.

3. Direct action,
Given that so many organisations no longer seem to know the difference between 'single sex' and 'single gender' so probably wouldn't even understand the arguments, I'm inclined to think direct action of some kind is the only way to go at the moment.

What does anyone think about bringing a law that all toilets must have working alarm buttons installed in them, unless they are single-sex & policed as such by the building owners/tenants?

Of course, it would also require sufficient security staff on duty near the toilets whenever the building is in use, to deal with any incidents.

Would it make anyone feel safer?

Would the cost deter companies from what is currenty a cheap option (changing signs & ruining things for women) instead of doing things properly?

So in short, the law is already that women's toilets are mixed sex?

Don't they think we should all be told?

Interesting that you apparently weren't in the least bit bothered about there being a male attendant in there. Can you be sure the other male wasn't also a member of maintenance or cleaning staff?

Or, as another commenter pointed out, can you be sure they weren't a trans man? The natural consequence of insisting on people using the toilet of their birth sex would be trans men in the ladies, so maybe you'd better get used to seeing apparent men with beards coming out of cubicles.

This whole thread is odd honestly, and points out some obvious contradictions in the GC position on toilets. If a male sex offender wanted to access female toilets for nefarious purposes, surely it would be far easier for him to claim to be a male attendant or to claim to be a trans man than for him to claim to be a woman.

I'm reluctant to use men's facilities as a protest because I think and men and boys are entitled to privacy too.

I like the idea of some kind of reward / recognition system for organisations that have correctly sexed facilities - and unisex space too if additional. I think I saw that suggested on another thread and thought it was a good idea but I can't remember any of the details now.

A man who goes into a woman’s bathroom is one I would automatically be wary of because they are already transgressing a boundary and disregarding women’s feelings.

YY. It's a red flag in and of itself.

Edinburgh Council are spending enormous amounts to make public toilets 'gender neutral'. mobile.twitter.com/nuffyknuckles/status/1389483673939062785

In terms of consulting or notifying people before the decision was made, one poster on that thread noted about a public consultation - 'It closed at end December 2020. The question was 'conveniently' conflated with another on extension of public internet access.'

All very Dentons, isn't it?

Or, as another commenter pointed out, can you be sure they weren't a trans man?

Why do you think that's more likely, when you think passing "trans men" would naturally use the men's? Oh I see, you didn't, it's just a silly gotcha.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

A man who goes into a woman’s bathroom is one I would automatically be wary of because they are already transgressing a boundary and disregarding women’s feelings.

YY. It's a red flag in and of itself.

Don't most who do it just go there to masturbate, for the transgressive thrill?

I have read some truly revolting accounts of them smearing cum about, even on the unused toilet roll. I don't ever want to contemplate mixed sex toilets becoming widespread. Some men's toilets have a bad enough reputation.

In every public toilet I've seen, if a male is going to be in the women's toilets for official reasons (cleaning, monitoring etc), there is a sign put on the door saying 'Male Cleaner present' or the toilet is entirely closed while it is cleaned.

The attendant is presumably in an office or booth of some kind in the vicinity of the toilet rather than actually inside where the cubicals are?

@Floisme

I'm reluctant to use men's facilities as a protest because I think and men and boys are entitled to privacy too.

I like the idea of some kind of reward / recognition system for organisations that have correctly sexed facilities - and unisex space too if additional. I think I saw that suggested on another thread and thought it was a good idea but I can't remember any of the details now.

I've been thinking more of stick than carrot - the reward scheme is brilliant, because as someone said about A Certain Organisation, never underestimate what a middle manager will do to get a shiny trophy on his desk. (paraphrasing)

There could be trophies, flags, an annual awards ceremony - they'd love it. And their employees would all be happy & productive. Win-win.

Wow, indeed.

Well I don't think the wider public realise. I know that my friends don't.

Snuck in the back door like everything.

Is anyone doing the bingo card on this one?

Most transmen know how nervous biological women are and I've yet to meet one with male body language. Maybe I will and yes, I will need to deal with the automatic response.

The truth in reality though, is that I won't be using women's toilets. Ever.

So, just working out how to navigate the world, that's all.

And yes, NAMALT, I have a son, brothers, male friends. They aren't strangers and I I'm not automatically scared of them. Most men and transwomen are decent people. Some aren't.

Yeah wish I could remember which thread it was on. Can anyone else remember seeing it?

Another advantage of a reward scheme is women can just instigate it ourselves and nominate organisations doing a good job. As you say, who turns down trophies?

Chickenyhead, I've long thought that when I win the EuroMillions, I'm going to set up a chain of exclusive Ladies toilets around the UK.

That & a few lesbian clubs, to help our lesbian sisters who've lost their places.

DH wants a submarine when I win. He can have that, I'll do the rest.

Sorry very insensitive X post there I was replying to IfIwere

What should the trophies look like? Graphic for novelty value & to get publicity, or abstract & tasteful?

I like the idea of some kind of reward / recognition system for organisations that have correctly sexed facilities - and unisex space too if additional. I think I saw that suggested on another thread and thought it was a good idea but I can't remember any of the details now.

I just feel so uncomfortable about rewarding organisations for keeping a crumb back of the safeguarding we have been afforded for years. It's ours, we need it. No one's going above and beyond if it isn't taken away, they just have to learn to say NO to the type of man who wants to enter a woman only space.

@Floisme

I'm reluctant to use men's facilities as a protest because I think and men and boys are entitled to privacy too.

I like the idea of some kind of reward / recognition system for organisations that have correctly sexed facilities - and unisex space too if additional. I think I saw that suggested on another thread and thought it was a good idea but I can't remember any of the details now.

Perhaps a reward scheme which got you special Champion status for having an additional unisex toilet? It would apply to buildings over a certain square footage.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

Chickenyhead, I've long thought that when I win the EuroMillions, I'm going to set up a chain of exclusive Ladies toilets around the UK.

That & a few lesbian clubs, to help our lesbian sisters who've lost their places.

DH wants a submarine when I win. He can have that, I'll do the rest.

🤣 submarine

Sounds like a plan! If I win, I'm in.

👍🏆