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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Live stream weightlifting

143 replies

BluePorchAwning · 02/08/2021 12:06

www.olympicstreams.me/live-weightlifting-women-s-87kg-stream

OP posts:
TedImgoingmad · 02/08/2021 13:40

@HollysBush

British girl doing well!
British girls supports Hubbard's inclusion.

Hubbard is the Trojan Horse. They were never going to win. They are old and injured. The young and fit will follow.

Bryonyshcmyony · 02/08/2021 13:41

Not surprised they supported Hubbard being in it as they are crap!!

Bryonyshcmyony · 02/08/2021 13:41

Hubbard is crap not the GB girl

TedImgoingmad · 02/08/2021 13:43

She supports Hubbard because she believes TWAW. Like a turkey who supports Christmas.

weebarra · 02/08/2021 13:57

But can we just appreciate Emily Campbell who is doing incredibly well?

Bryonyshcmyony · 02/08/2021 13:58

Yes I'm really enjoying watching!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 02/08/2021 13:59

She'd be cancelled if she dared speak the truth TedImgoingmad .

CharlieParley · 02/08/2021 14:00

I've come to the conclusion that nothing short of returning to a baseline definition of females as being persons with XX chromosomes, female genitals and female gonads will do.

The definition will specify which edge cases fall within the female boundary for the purposes of participating in female sports. This could be a rule stating that athletes must meet at least two out of these three characteristics, which is how sex is defined and edge cases delineated in UK law (sex is the combination of chromosomes, genitals and gonads. To qualify as a member of one sex a person must have at least any two of these).

I actually thought that this was the general definition used for sports purposes, but reading a recent thread on Ovarit, I was wrong.

Here is the comment by a poster called ProxyMusic that explains what happened:

Yes, the insulting, misogynistic & male supremacist practice of using testosterone levels to determine eligibility for female sports was started by XY DSD athletes who objected to, & sued over, the IOC's & IAAF's use of Barr body buccal swab sex chromosome testing to determine eligibility for female events - a practice in place for circa 30 years from the mid 1960s to mid/late 1990s.

The athlete you are speaking of is Maria José Martínez-Patiño, born 1961, a Spanish hurdler who was intially disqualified from women's athletics when found to be XY & successfully sued to be re-instated. It's because of that case that sports governing bodies began to redefine women according to male standards. Instead of being defined as human beings with female sex chromosomes, female gonads & female reproductive systems, women were redefined in sports as persons of any sex chromosomes, any kind of gonads, & any kind of repro anatomy who met any or all of the following criteria:

absent male external genitalia, or male genitalia that malformed in utero;

natural testosterone produced by testes that's lower than & outside the normal male range;

normal male levels of testosterone made by testes, but a lowered or lack of ability to make use of T as males typically do because of male androgen receptors that don't function properly.

In other words, the categories "women" & "female athletes" now came to include males with male-only DSDs that resulted in them having missing, undersized and/or misshapen penises, along with testes that were undescended at birth but still work properly, producing far more testosterone than females ever could - & in many cases producing viable sperm capable of enabling these athletes & so-called "women" to father children.

Not coincidentally, Maria José Martínez-Patiño was one of the 20 people at the IOC who decided in 2015 to allow males to compete in women's Olympics so long as the males declare they have a "female gender identity" at least "for sporting purposes," & can demonstrate that for 12 months prior to entering a women's event their T levels have been below 10 nmol/L - a level well within the normal male range, BTW.

As it turns out, there were only four actual female people on the IOC subcommittee that decided to open up female sports to males using claims of "gender identity" in 2015. The rest of the committee consisted of 14 XY persons without DSDs, one XY with a DSD, & one TIM, the TRA Joanna Harper. Given that TIMs & XY DSD persons constitute a teeny-tiny proportion of the population, whilst girls & women constitute 51%, it seems to me that females were vastly under-represented on the IOC committee that did away with female-only sports - whilst TIMS & XY DSD athletes were vastly over-represented.

Thanks to those male athletes suffering from male-only DSDs we have had male sports and mixed sports for decades. That Ovarit thread is right, we need to stop talking about hormones and return to defining men as male and women as female and segregate our sports categories strictly by sex.

PamDenick · 02/08/2021 14:01

Emily Jade Campbell - you are amazing! Such a role model!

RedDogsBeg · 02/08/2021 14:01

The cheater failed, but in doing so robbed a woman with true medal contention of their place, shameful.

Is LH out of the whole weightlifting competition? They do two lift styles don't they, the Snatch and the Clean and Jerk, if you fail one you don't get to do the other, is that right?

PamDenick · 02/08/2021 14:01

Li WenWen - outstanding!

BalladOfBarryAndFreda · 02/08/2021 14:03

Li Wenwen’s screaming is making me laugh though Grin. She looks thrilled.

Congratulations to Emily Campbell.

It doesn’t matter whether LH was shit or not. They shouldn’t be there in the first place, taking the place of a woman who trained hard for years for her moment.

Feedingthebirds1 · 02/08/2021 14:05

What got me about Hubbard was that in an interview she did she asked people not to get on her back and to 'see the wider picture'. Well she isn't seeing the wider picture is she, she only wants it one way.

BoreOfWhabylon · 02/08/2021 14:08

Surely anyone with XY chromosomes should be excluded from women’s sport. It’s the only way to be truly fair. It’s unfortunate for DSD athletes but it’s the only way to ensure fairness. (I also think that the tinkering with testosterone for DSD athletes gives validation to allowing male athletes into women’s sport).

Thing is, there are some DSDs where chromosomal males are insensitive to testosterone and develop as female en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 02/08/2021 14:10

Charlie Parley

Thanks for that post. That is absolutely enraging.

Women need role models for sport because coronary heart disease is the most common cause of premature death for us.

Jane Torvill got me skating as a 10 year old, who knows how many young girls have got moving because of the Williams sisters, Victoria Pendleton, Jessica Ennis - or any of the other remarkable female athletes.

Poorna Bell has got loads of women into lifting heavy weights, it's really good for us and she's inspiring. I'm willing to bet that no young girl takes up lifting because of Laurel Hubbard. We can't aspire to what Laurel does because our XX chromosomes and hormones and shorter lever arms mean we can't do what Laurel does.

OvaHere · 02/08/2021 14:30

Thanks to those male athletes suffering from male-only DSDs we have had male sports and mixed sports for decades. That Ovarit thread is right, we need to stop talking about hormones and return to defining men as male and women as female and segregate our sports categories strictly by sex.

Yes. The public have been boiling frogs in this particular pot for a long time. What we are seeing now with bog standard men being allowed to compete as female is the natural conclusion to this absolute mess.

It's institutionalised misogyny at the highest sporting level that still won't allow female athletes to be fully humanised and allow female sport to standalone and sit outside the reach of any male.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/08/2021 14:32

A young woman from an ethnic minority lost her opportunity at the Olympics for someone born male now in their 40's to do that? Talk about adding insult to injury.

FindTheTruth · 02/08/2021 14:37

Prevention of Competition Manipulation (Trojan Horse)
olympics.com/athlete365/what-we-do/integrity/prevention-of-competition-manipulation/

TedImgoingmad · 02/08/2021 14:39

@MrsOvertonsWindow

She'd be cancelled if she dared speak the truth TedImgoingmad .
She could just say nothing. This is from a BBC Sport article posted this morning:

Britain's Emily Campbell, another who will compete against Hubbard in Tokyo, said in 2018:"I believe everybody should be able to do something they love and she qualified in her own right like the rest of us girls.

"Everyone has been very opinionated about it but I think everyone is kind of forgetting about her feelings."

I'm very pleased for her and her silver medal is a fantastic achievement, but she's helping to throw other women under the bus with remarks like that.

littlbrowndog · 02/08/2021 14:41

Emily silver. 💪💪🥂

Bryonyshcmyony · 02/08/2021 14:44

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

A young woman from an ethnic minority lost her opportunity at the Olympics for someone born male now in their 40's to do that? Talk about adding insult to injury.
No, she competed for Tonga. She did OK, certainly better than Hubbard.
ShagMeRiggins · 02/08/2021 14:45

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

A young woman from an ethnic minority lost her opportunity at the Olympics for someone born male now in their 40's to do that? Talk about adding insult to injury.
Yeah, but at least we got a head tilt and heart hands at the end. Hmm
ShagMeRiggins · 02/08/2021 14:47

@ItsSnowJokes

I have come to the conclusion we do desperately need a third category. It should only be for XX chromosomes and we can call it the women's category.
Or take a page from extreme sports and call it the XX Games
TedImgoingmad · 02/08/2021 14:53

No, she competed for Tonga. She did OK, certainly better than Hubbard.

Only because she had a special invitation from the IOC following the Hubbard selection controversy. And, I suspect, only because she is an ethnic minority from a poor country being pushed out by an extremely rich, while male born person. It was not a good look for the IOC in the run up to an already difficult Olympics. They are not going to do that every time a TW takes a woman's place.

Bryonyshcmyony · 02/08/2021 14:54

Apparently they are looking at the system after the Olympics to make sure it upholds "everyone's rights"

If that means women's rights I'll be amazed