Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

[Nefelibata33]

Hello everyone, I'm starting a new thread, cos I posted this message on a thread about Dr Helen Webberley, but people said they didn't want to discuss it, cos the thread was specifically about Dr Webberley. So I thought I would post my message for everyone to see, in a new thread. I think it's worth reading, I would like to discuss things with people. If you want to say something, please do. I will talk to anyone. Abuse me if you want, but I'd prefer if you didn't. I couldn't give a sh*t tbh. Sending love xxx. Here's my original message below

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

Oh god. DH is a very similar height and stature to Chewie, now you mention it.

A generation scarred for life.

Thinking about this very important topic.

I have always fancied tall big strong men whose personality is gentle softie (and being happy to be. Um. Let's say not the opinionated decision maker 🤣

Chicken/ egg though.

I can mention a couple of my other crushes. One is real head in hands stuff

@Chickenyhead

Plus acted quite erm, detached themselves?

Weird.

I think I need to accept that I am annoying.😬

The OP?!

Not interested. Didn't read anything. Not interested. Never are.

I wish I'd thought to ask

If ALL women are wonderful and amazing.

Then aren't the women on these threads?!

@NiceGerbil

Thinking about this very important topic.

I have always fancied tall big strong men whose personality is gentle softie (and being happy to be. Um. Let's say not the opinionated decision maker 🤣

Chicken/ egg though.

I can mention a couple of my other crushes. One is real head in hands stuff

Cheque always struck me as the really solid bestie who would have no truck with bullshit, recognised that hugs were important, knew that his mate was often a bit of a twat, and helped him communicate even when things were a bit tricky. Han was nothing without Chewie.

Chewie is a fucking legend.

@Chickenyhead

The thing is, my transwomen friends aren't trying to take away from biological women.

They don't expect to insert themselves in biological women's safe spaces.

They don't agree with transwomen who have the benefit of male puberty being in women's sports.

And they are horrified that trans identifying sex offenders are being transferred in to women's prisons. Horrified that the judge found men's right trumped women's rights yet again.

The problem transwomen have are TRAs. Sending rape and death threats to women. Calling women transphobic because they sneezed funny.

TRAs regularly come on this board and attack us. Call us cis and deliberately inflame us, knowing that we have the right not to buy in to gender identity. They do it to provoke.

I'm not sure what your aim is however. You genuinely appear to be trying to appeal to us on a humanity front. Please try to do the same in return.

Imagine 5 men accosted you in a car park and took turns raping you until you bled. Its dark and your clothes are over your face. You can't see them, you can hear them and the pain. You are bruised and mentally broken. You wish you had died.

Imagine you then go to rape counselling after weeks of locking yourself in your house. Your first time leaving the house and you end up in a waiting room alone with a stranger who is a man. An innocent man.

How do you think that might feel as a weaker biological woman?

I can tell you if you want me to?

I just wanted to quote this comment in full again.

Chickenyhead Thank you for speaking out and I'm so sorry for what you endured

I'm so sorry that instead of focusing on recovery, survivors like you are once again having to fight to have their needs met. It's exhausting and infuriating.

I am exhausted and angry. I don't want to do this anymore. Life is too short. Nonetheless, Chickenyhead, myself and many many other women (and some men) will continue to defend women's rights.

And so we share deeply traumatic experiences explaining our need for a female-only therapeutic environment, as Chickenyhead did here. And this is the response:

Sorry Chickenyhead, if I didn't address your post, if I had to address every post on here that was generally having a go at me and exasperated me, I'd be here all day. Argggh, this is so frustrating

Sharing a deeply traumatic experience is interpreted as having a go by the OP. Who is exasperated by this heartfelt plea for understanding. And frustrated.

I have many words to say about this response, but we have all read them and written them on here and elsewhere, so I'll not bother. I will just say that even without the OP disclosing being male I would have concluded that from this answer. It's fucking cold-hearted and proof if we needed it that to some members of the male sex, the suffering of female people is wholly irrelevant if it gets in the way of their desires. Of course, it's not always displayed so blatantly...

@charlieparley Thank you.

I sort of regret posting this for OP, it's so very private and sometimes I am a bit slow at picking up true intent. I actually thought the OP was vulnerable, so I shared. Now I feel dirty, if that makes sense.

I think I'm better when they are out and out nasty. My #be kind is strong.

I am annoyed at myself so I understand the OP finding me so.

I don't know how you are all so resilient. I'm sorry for the hard time I have given in my learning.

P.s. my first crush was Arnold Swartenegger 😫

To @Chickenyhead and all the patient, intelligent, thoughtful women on here, Thankyou.

@Chickenyhead I understand what you mean. Bring out there and vulnerable is a double edged sword but your words were important. I hope you realise that

Chickeny you don't need to apologize for being incredibly brave and open. The rather despicable OP can own their shit, and actually, your bravery has just made yet another thread on FWR to demonstrate to lurkers the 'genuine' concern for women that these people have. I think you're amazing

🤗🤗🤗

Thank you amazing women.

It means a lot.

wrt to Harrison Ford, the really questionable behaviour is from Rick Deckard in Blade Runner. Yes, Han is a cocky sod, but at least Leia kicks arse rescuing him. Deckard straight-up assaults Sean Young's character, Rachael.

@FloralBunting

wrt to Harrison Ford, the really questionable behaviour is from Rick Deckard in Blade Runner. Yes, Han is a cocky sod, but at least Leia kicks arse rescuing him. Deckard straight-up assaults Sean Young's character, Rachael.

I don't like blade runner precisely because of this. It just feels so brutal

The pattern seems to be to attack and criticise women who ‘admit’ to being assaulted by males, accuse them of being unkind/unfair/exaggerating/prejudiced, and then discount what they say because they are unfair/unkind etc etc people.

It’s a weird dynamic.

[quote Chickenyhead]@charlieparley Thank you.

I sort of regret posting this for OP, it's so very private and sometimes I am a bit slow at picking up true intent. I actually thought the OP was vulnerable, so I shared. Now I feel dirty, if that makes sense.

I think I'm better when they are out and out nasty. My #be kind is strong.

I am annoyed at myself so I understand the OP finding me so.

I don't know how you are all so resilient. I'm sorry for the hard time I have given in my learning.

P.s. my first crush was Arnold Swartenegger 😫[/quote]
Please don't feel annoyed at yourself. As Floral points out, what you have done is exposed the exact problems that women are worried about and sometimes can't really articulate anywhere near as effectively as seeing them unfold in real life.

The complete lack of empathy, the self-serving demands, the total ignorance of what it is to be a woman, can sometimes be hard to describe. When you see it play out in real life, it's blindingly obvious.

What a lot of men don't understand, is that from a woman's point of view, a male demand for access is instant and permanent justification to refuse it.

^

OP would die for a woman, apparently; in reality OP does not acknowledge, respect , or display any emotion other than annoyance towards a woman’s suffering. Presumably paying attention to another person’s feelings for two minutes is literally a fate worse than death.

So many misogynists care greatly about hypothetical, theoretical women; it’s just actually-existing women they hate. Perhaps it’s unsurprising that some of this tendency start “identifying as” their abstract ideas of womanhood when real women keep on being inconveniently human at them.

Chickenyhead, I’m so sorry. And so angry at what happened to you, and at the entitled male bullshit compounding the trauma. Thank you for speaking. I hope you find a space to heal.

Whatever happened to LOP did they get banned? Why the sudden disappearence?

As we're derailing all over the place.

Anyone want to talk about this taking it personally thing?

It was obvious on this thread.

It's also really common on threads about paying for sex.
On those, you often get male posters arguing that it's ok in the these circs. Which are the ones that apply to them. Often when xyz is raised that is not what they do or would do, they say God that's awful. Men who do that are terrible.

Also with metoo a fair few of my male colleagues decided that it was a great topic to bring up with me at work . And again there was in the end a big element of what impact does this have on me.

There's also s common theme of you can't generalise. That's not fair. I've not done anything wrong. Why should i feel guilty (which no one has ever said they should!).

That last one is also really common on threads about empire/ our actions re slavery etc.

So what I'm wondering is.

On any topic do the dominant group automatically tend to take s very individual/ personal view?
Like. Look at how this group has been treated- why is it my personal fault?. I'm lovely! You can't lump everyone in together etc.

While the group who was on the shit end of the thing. Seems to see it much more at a class level. This part I get.

Any thoughts?

It seems bizarre to me to take these things personally but it happens all the time.

In many ways I agree with not expecting people to feel guilty for what their ancestors did (eg Slave owners) or what other members of their group (eg male people) are doing now. I wouldn't expect my husband to apologize for or feel guilty for all the school massacre shootings in America just because the perps were all male, that'd be bonkers.

However, if someone right now is supporting the acts of others that clearly are harmful right now, eg supporting gender ideology and certain people despite the fact they are causing harm particularly to women right now, and then getting sweary and irate over innocuous comments, ignoring and belittling women's painful heartfelt personal stories, saying "me me me" instead, it's ok to have a problem with that.

You don't need to over analyse the problem with that.

'In many ways I agree with not expecting people to feel guilty for what their ancestors did'

I've never seen this even hinted at though.

I find it bizarre.

X group did y shitty stuff z years ago.

Why should I feel guilty about that?

NO ONE IS SAYING YOU SHOULD!!!

I can see you misunderstood my post on that.

Where do people get this idea that eg 100 years ago X country did y shitty thing. That it's directed at them personally?

I mean I can't get my head round it but it happens - massively- all the time.

Males, such as trans women, are on average six inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than females. They have sixty percent more upper body strength and much greater handgrip and punch power than females. Almost all healthy males can beat healthy females in a one-on-one fiht.

I'm so sorry chickeny, for what they did to you and for how you've been treated on this thread. Please don't feel bad for posting though I'm sure it's incredibly triggering. I hope you're ok.

A thread that's potentially relevant to this thread.

Article about covert narcissism. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4312297-article-about-covert-narcissism

I hope you're feeling better today Chickenyhead your posts really moved me. I think the way OP behaved towards you was unforgivable but unfortunately predictable. Please don't take it to heart, its a reflection on them not you 💐

Looking back over the OP’s posts it does seem that maybe in the end they were more focused on people agreeing with their perception of how they viewed themself than the other topics.

They certainly felt women owed them something. It must be disappointing to discover that the socialisation you had as a child and teen tends to be very hard to overcome and many times is visible in your posting style.

That on an Internet forum, it has nothing at all to do with how you look. It is like the tweets of some males who identify as women, ever so telling.