Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

[Nefelibata33]

Hello everyone, I'm starting a new thread, cos I posted this message on a thread about Dr Helen Webberley, but people said they didn't want to discuss it, cos the thread was specifically about Dr Webberley. So I thought I would post my message for everyone to see, in a new thread. I think it's worth reading, I would like to discuss things with people. If you want to say something, please do. I will talk to anyone. Abuse me if you want, but I'd prefer if you didn't. I couldn't give a sh*t tbh. Sending love xxx. Here's my original message below

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

Although I wouldn't call OP a genuinely dysphoric trans woman. Perhaps AGP. Perhaps old fashioned misogynist.

I don't think the first and last of those are mutually exclusive. I think current AGP-led transactivism certainly ill-serves the traditional HSTS transwoman, and possibly leads them down the same misogynistic path. Into this belief that they can insist they are exactly the same as women. AGP transwomen really need that fantasy - HSTS never used to in the same way, but many (not all) seem to have bought into it.

I recall reading a letter from the press - I think it was relating to the 2004 GRA - from psychiatrists working in gender saying - "these people face many problems, and need support, but you will not help them by playing along and encouraging them in the belief that they really can be the opposite sex".

That started a bad move as a legal fiction, and now we see the attempt to spread the fiction everywhere (something dismissed as obviously not going to happen during GRA debates). And transwomen are just finding themselves more and more frustrated as their ever-increasing expectations collide ever-harder with reality.

Why can't she work full time and he go part time? What's stopping them?

Societal expectations from both sexes.

SAHDs face a much higher statistical likelihood of divorce and you can see from the threads on here that there is often a very different attitude depending on the sex of the SAHP - there's always a poster or two pointing out that 'you wouldn't say that it if was a woman staying at home'. Men are more likely to be seen as 'lazy' and face resentment from their working partner.

The other factor is that women tend to go for partners older than them (so often further on in their career path) and also prioritise their partner's earnings much more than men do, which is part of why we often see the situation where it 'makes more sense' for the man to keep working.

But this is a massive derail which I didn't think would go on this long.

Start your own thread @SourAppleChew? I’d be very interested in contributing.

Well OP. You certainly seem to be entrenched.

It never happens.
evidence is posted

Well, that is disgusting, but it is only (one, two, three …. ) of us. So, it rarely happens.
posters remind OP that it does happen and they are simply dismissive and that seems to fit the misogyny apparent in the posts

You are hateful and not treating male who identify as women as humans. You are all abusing me.
reminder that women are also human and owe not one person niceness and really all women are doing is disagreeing and in no way abusive.

Slurs and abuse.

It is always the same. I did think in the early hours this morning that you’d listen and discuss. But seems not.

OP. You need to get out of that entrenched narrative that women who don’t agree with this you are not abusing you. You have not been abused at all. You have been shown evidence, anecdotal posts with very painful experiences which you ignored.

You have spent far too long having people tell you transwomen are victims of hate if women disagree.

YOU have been the person who has now resorted to abuse because women did not do what you said to do. YOU.

Not one other person. Feels good does it, to feel so righteous? Well done. You must feel proud.

You need to get out of that entrenched narrative that women who don’t agree with this you are not abusing you.

Damn should be.

‘You need to get out of that entrenched narrative that women who don’t agree with you are abusing you.’

No victim there. Just biological male aggression against biological women. Boring really.

💯. It's so fucking tedious.

@SourAppleChew
Feminists are generally anti war, so US feminists have never fought to get women included in the draft AFAIK.

They have opposed it though.
medium.com/@Summer/list-of-feminist-resources-tackling-men-s-issues-8e5e7984c182

Here you are op. Yet another reason why safeguarding for women and girls s necessary: (TW refers to rape). These allegations are horrific. Tell me that safeguarding isn't necessary again op. I double dare you.

This person raped their own mentally unwell mother, yet people are more concerned about someone using incorrect fucking pronouns.

But no. Stuff like this never happens does it?

Edited at poster's request to make clear that this link contains disturbing content

www.invenglobal.com/articles/14701/chris-chan-internet-meme-barb

So predictable. The MRA/TRA tropes abound.

The only difference is one person views women as so one-dimensional, they don't even see them as real and are aggressively impervious to any view to the contrary.

And the other individual has some serious inbuilt resentment to all women. So much so that they actually copy and pasted comments from individual women in order to get further outraged about them. And they, too, will remain impervious to any other viewpoint.

The similarities are striking. The resentment towards women is palpable.

And so tediously predictable, I can't even.

I wonder if people like this even know quite how common this sort of misogyny is.

I'll just say the info in that link needs a trigger warning.

@Thelnebriati

I'll just say the info in that link needs a trigger warning.

I did put a trigger warning.

JK Rowling posted a load of crap.

Did you read it? What about it was "crap"?

Are you American?

Sorry, I mean a mahoosive much bigger one. Its awful. I did think about sharing it as a thread yesterday but decided against it.

People are already saying 'but he's not really trans''.

These transmen would appear to agree with you Necessaryscene.

archive.md/l7xc1

@Thelnebriati

Sorry, I mean a mahoosive much bigger one. Its awful. I did think about sharing it as a thread yesterday but decided against it.

People are already saying 'but he's not really trans''.

I'll ask @mnhq to change it. I didn't think one was allowed to suggest someone isn't 'proper' trans though. I thought that you're trans if you say you are, no exceptions? It can't be both ways, can it?

From the OP: I hate the patriarchy.

and who demonstrated clearly how they are to their very core so steeped in the power of the patriarchy that they use that power against women without even blinking, that they use that power to demand women act and do as they say, that they dismiss any and all concerns evidenced to insist they have what they want as it is their right as part of the patriarchy.

I wasn't even really convinced that patriarchy was a useful concept, or that misogyny really existed.

Until I saw this lot. Talk about eye-opening.

Nothing inflames me more than men who behave like my dad did.

I have asked to have my post withdrawn as I meant to report the post, not quote it.

Ahhhhh the military. Men fighting for their country! Who are they fighting? Why, more men! Feminists are against war. War is caused by dictatorship (men)

@RoseisMadder

Ahhhhh the military. Men fighting for their country! Who are they fighting? Why, more men! Feminists are against war. War is caused by dictatorship (men)

Patriarchy 101!

@FloralBunting

OP fancies Han Solo, I guess.

I wanted to be Han Solo.

Reality is a stubborn mistress.

I always wanted to be Chewbacca! Still working on it, despite being 5"2 and human.

for @Chickenyhead. I am so sorry for what you went through.

for everyone else patiently explaining everything and backing it up with evidence.

Just catching up.

Like I said I do worry when posters like OP start threads on what they would see as the lions den.

I don't understand what anyone would hope to gain by doing that. For me what I would see as the lions den would be incel groups maybe. I would no way go and post telling them to stop it. I mean how could it end well? They'd tell me to fuck off, probably with some awful threats. I'd feel shit. I would have achieved nothing.

Not saying we are like incels obv but OPs mindset means that is how they see this topic.

Are you ok OP, honestly. This won't make you feel better.

Even though we won't do the things I just mentioned because in fact we're just big standard women who know that eg male people should not be imprisoned in the women's estate.

OP can you see that your posts are really inconsistent.

That you are saying others do things that you are doing a lot. Blanket statements being the main one-

'I can't emphasise enough how much I think all women are fantastic.'

The vast majority of men are total d*ckheads. It's not the fault of men, it's just the way they are, and we have a patriarchy, and that's how it is. Men are generally tossers, totally'

'Every group of people has good and bad elements. I guess there are plenty of women who are nasty. There are loads of men who are nasty.'

'I don't know what to say. Just because there are bad people in a group, it doesn't make everyone bad'

'I don't mean you any harm. No trans woman does, we are sisters'

', I hate men, the vast majority.'

No all women aren't lovely.
No all men aren't bastards.

Your posts come across strongly that you really really don't like men. You've touched on some reasons. Yes there are a lot of horrible men around. The vast majority of violent crime and almost all sex offences are committed by them. This is a global problem. I know that generally men have a strong tendancy to hierarchy, and strongly imposing a certain idea of masculinity. This causes real problems including for lots of other men. Loads of men feel that they do not fit in with, or at risk from certain other men. I can understand very well why groups not accepted seek their own places- example being gay men opening bars etc where they can relax etc.

Women are not 'not men'. We are different entirely. The things men do to each other and to everyone. We have enough on our plate trying to improve things for women and children. When we make progress it helps everyone. Same as when gay men fight for understanding acceptance etc progress is made. It's always slow though. And can go backwards.

What I'm trying to say is that disliking men as a group does not mean you are in a different group. Lots of women like men. I like men.

Thinking all women are brilliant is bizarre. Myra hindley? The nuns in the laundries? Women who organise drugs distribution or money laundering? Women who poison their partners?

It isn't real life. You prefer to company of women. So what? Not all women feel like that at all.

Your view seems to be based in what you want things to be like. Not what they are. You reduce both men and women to borglike clones. That's not a healthy way to think.

'Except for Harrison Ford in Star Wars, maybe'

No he was an utter dick. Seriously. Cornering Leia. Nasty. Just as a general point. I'm surprised you like him. The character was an egotistical, classically macho male. Goading those he thought were lesser. Not listening to those who knew better- arrogant. Loved himself. A dick.

Yes I enjoyed the films when I was s kid but still. Not a nice man. Interesting choice.