Shameful, incoherent, poorly referenced, completely biased piece of 'journalism' from the Guardian

[JustcameoutGC]

So, we are all right wing anti-trans nuts.
The WiSpa incident didn't happen
Or if it did then that would be no problem
(make up your mind people)
The violence was all directed towards the TRAs.

If you needed an excuse to cancel your subscription, this would be it.

Blah blah blah

As usual no consistency.

The right of those to use the facilities etc according to gender ID was pushed for and is law in California.

I'd expect the response to be like the man there

Person is in the right place
Person must be trans
It's fine and you're a bigot

Why the hooha? This was fought for. Why not celebrations?

Out of curiosity we have no idea who the man was dp we? Not sure that precious person has any proof it was them, could just be another attention seeking nutter? Not the topic I know but I’ve been wondering

Was wondering that too, time. Didn't this Precious do a video claiming to be the person in the spa (I didn't watch it)? Now they're saying they don't know why they're getting hassle? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

I hadn't read the whole thing before my first comment as it gave me such rage but having done so now, the fact that they have gone on to conflate Mumsnet with Pizzagate Trump supporting racist nutters is unbelievable even for those two halfwits calling themselves journalists. This is just wrong on every level.Justine should sue.

except, there is NO evidence that the 'incident' actually did happen, Guardian aren't the only ones reporting that. And the woman in Q who complained about the naked man waving his penis around is a crazy, evangelical christian type who appears to have made this all up as a stunt.
The police investigated.

@Jackgrealishscurtains

Once again, the rather inconvenient contradiction is at play here:

Either

The idea of a penis being in a female space is so ludicrous and outrageous that women would have to make up a 'hoax' that it actually happened.

Or

Cock and balls in a female space is absolutely fine and it's perfectly plausible and acceptable that that would happen.

They can't seem to decide which it is!

This!

There’s been a relentless push to coax women to accept the reality of be-penised persons in female only spaces, but when it happens and a woman who hasn’t got the memo objects, suddenly it’s all been made up?

Horseshit.

And yes, painting people who object to paedophiles as morally suspect certainly is a hot take. I think she may find that she’s left quite a few people behind with that headlong plummet down the rabbit hole of her extremism.

@BraveBananaBadge

Was wondering that too, time. Didn't this Precious do a video claiming to be the person in the spa (I didn't watch it)? Now they're saying they don't know why they're getting hassle? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

I hadn't read the whole thing before my first comment as it gave me such rage but having done so now, the fact that they have gone on to conflate Mumsnet with Pizzagate Trump supporting racist nutters is unbelievable even for those two halfwits calling themselves journalists. This is just wrong on every level.Justine should sue.

The article described Nunsnet as ..."Mumsnet (a platform for UK mothers, which has attracted anti-trans feminists)." Which is a perfectly accurate statement. I'm sure they have plenty of screenshots to back up the assertion They have nothing to fear on that front.

Mumsnet, not Nunsnet lol

@sailmeaway

except, there is NO evidence that the 'incident' actually did happen, Guardian aren't the only ones reporting that. And the woman in Q who complained about the naked man waving his penis around is a crazy, evangelical christian type who appears to have made this all up as a stunt. The police investigated.

Why would she need to make it up, when the situation that she described is both legal and possible in California? Isn’t this situation exactly what transactivists are campaigning for?

And how did she persuade all of the staff an patrons in the spa to play along as she filmed her video?

Well I wouldn't trust the Guardian's reporting on this issue sail to the extent if they said it was daytime I'd have to go out and check. I thought it said twice the police are investigating so there has been no conclusion yet.

Should it turn out this didn't happen then I'd stand corrected and hopefully the woman would be held to account. But still -why dismiss her story out of hand simply because you don't stand with her religious beliefs? She might be an evangelical Christian, why does that mean she should have to put up with a penis on display in a space for women and children?

A discussion which should be taking place sensibly and transparently, taking the views and rights of all women into account, is spilling over violently into the streets and outlets like the Guardian are gleefully stirring the pot, making out anyone objecting is some kind of dangerous, right wing bigot. It is scary.

Don't be stupid, suggestionsplease1.

@sailmeaway

except, there is NO evidence that the 'incident' actually did happen, Guardian aren't the only ones reporting that. And the woman in Q who complained about the naked man waving his penis around is a crazy, evangelical christian type who appears to have made this all up as a stunt. The police investigated.

Do you have any official confirmation that police investigated it? Because, what did they investigate?

We know it is legal for a male who has self identified as a women to use the female section of the spa in this way. So exactly what crime did you expect the police to have investigated?

Seems you are regurgitating rumours.

Here is the thread with much discussion on the inconsistencies in this not new take about the wi spa incident. There is no logic to it being staged or made up. And the conflicts in the arguments that continue to be pushed are rather glaring.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4292052-Article-about-WiSpa-incident-title-edited-by-MNHQ

'And how did she persuade all of the staff and patrons in the spa to play along as she filmed her video?'

She didn't. She went to the desk and complained about the 'man' exposing himself as if it had happened. The staff didn't 'play along with anything.The police have investigated - and found NOTHING. The spa say no trans members used the spa that day.
The woman who 'reported' the incident is rabidly homophobic, an evangelical who has scored a massive 'win' over the coverage for this in the right wing, and world media.

I just don't believe the incident happened. At all. And people lose credibility when they use something like this to prove ther points

I have a subscription for the Guardian and I won't be cancelling my support for the only anti-right wing media outlet that counters the regular semi-fascist drivel imposed on us daily from numerous other sources. Anyone listening to the testimony of the US police who had to get the loons out of the Capitol? No? Other things to do? How surprising.

'We know it is legal for a male who has self identified as a women to use the female section of the spa in this way. So exactly what crime did you expect the police to have investigated?'

To see if a man, not a TW, really did expose himself in the aggressive manner described to women and children in the way this woman complained.

@sailmeaway

except, there is NO evidence that the 'incident' actually did happen, Guardian aren't the only ones reporting that. And the woman in Q who complained about the naked man waving his penis around is a crazy, evangelical christian type who appears to have made this all up as a stunt. The police investigated.

So if it didn't happen are you saying that it shouldn't happen? That it is a good thing it didn't happen, because if it did it would be completely unacceptable?

Are you saying that the man defending the right of the male-bodied person to be in the female section of the spa was wrong to do so?

Or are you arguing that the event probably didn't happen, but if it did it was perfectly acceptable - in which case, why are you so keen to point out that the event may have been made up?

Also, accusing someone of being an evangelical Christian making up stories is a little bit of a contradiction. A true evangelical Christian is not someone who 'bears false witness'. So if the story is fabricated, she was not a true evangelical Christian. A bit like how no true-trans-person would ever act unethically around women.

To see if a man, not a TW, really did expose himself in the aggressive manner described to women and children in the way this woman complained.

So how can you tell the difference between a naked intact male-bodied person with a female gender identity and a naked intact male-bodied person with a male gender identity?

This info would be so helpful.

So sailaway, let me see if I get this.

It didn’t happen, but the police investigated it. If the person was a male, then it wasn’t ok, but if they identified as a woman , then it was ok.

You know that doesn’t make any logical sense, right?

Did it happen or not?

To see if a man, not a TW, really did expose himself in the aggressive manner described to women and children in the way this woman complained.

‘Aggressive manner’ ….

Please clarify.

Do you believe that a male has the right to expose their penis to a nine year old girl, or six year old girl from the other complaint, and to get into a hot tub with said girl?

Let’s not discuss the manner which this was done. Because it seems from your posts that this is acceptable behaviour for any male.

Is this the behaviour you wish to dismiss?

Oh cross posted with everyone I see

Whole thing is just equating anyone who queries the possibility of a male born person, with no srs, entering and using the female facilities, with qanon, anti vax, homophobia etc.

Completely distracting from the key point.

@sailmeaway, I was watching the events unfold directly.

cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-battle-of-wi-spa - another journalist summarised pretty well the situation with the negative of all the sides. There are at least 3 firsthand accounts since 2018 of a male person exposing their penis the women's section - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9773417/Mother-says-trans-woman-penis-beard-got-hot-tub-daughter-6-LA-spa.html the DM reported on another one here, and the woman in question posted her account on youtube after the first protest.

So we have two videos and one tripadvisor review saying that someone exposed a penis in the nude women's section.

• California law says that this is allowed
• The WiSpa staff say that this is allowed, both in the video and in their statement
• The guy with the moustache in the video comes up to tell her this is allowed

So why would there be a hoax about something that's legal and the spa permits? Yeah cubanaangel looks nutso, but does that mean she has no right to be in a female only space if she's naked?

Most of us here watched the sequence of events happen, and watched the narrative change from "you're a bigot if you're not okay with [alleged event]" to "[alleged event] was so unbelievable its clearly a far right hoax". Seeing the Guardian, Washington Post and others uncritically repeat this torpedoes their credibility. For example, the statement that "no trans person registered at the spa was there that day". For one, Cubanaangel doesn't even mention trans, she's quite clear that what she sees is a man. Were any men there that day? Secondly, you can go to the spa website and see that you don't need to be registered to have a day pass. Any journalist could check that website and see that, so why didn't they?

God, it's just awful, more like a comic than a paper of record. I can't believe previous editors like Peter Preston would have allowed this childish drivel in the paper.

@WarriorN

Whole thing is just equating anyone who queries the possibility of a male born person, with no srs, entering and using the female facilities, with qanon, anti vax, homophobia etc.

Completely distracting from the key point.

Exactly this. And to see it writ large in what is supposed to be an unbiased report of events in an outlet of the Guardian's standing is absolutely unbelievable.

Cancelled after the non-reporting of Cologne NYE 2015.

Same here and this reminds me of that, as when they grudgingly reported it they did everything they could to dismiss it or paint the perpetrators in a sympathetic light. The Guardian is misogynistic.

So if the spa said that there were no trans customers that day, then that’s saying that the penis owner was a man, right?

But the police are saying that there was no crime, so there was no man, either.

The position the graun are taking is that the woman filming fabricated this incident entirely, from whole cloth.

But the film at the time show the spa staff saying not “there isn’t a man in the women’s spa”, but “all the patrons currently in the women’s spa are entitled to be there”. They don’t go and check, they don’t say “no, there are no men there”.

And all of the women in the background, in robes with wet hair, including the one getting refunded on account of not wishing to share the spa with a male- what are they doing? Why are they there? How have they been persuaded to play along?

There is a person on Twitter saying that they are the spa patron in question. Why are they doing that?

Let’s have a swipe at all of that with Occam’s razor and see what survives.