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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I'm a 5 year old boy.

130 replies

567fedup · 28/07/2021 13:11

Feeling depressed. What the hell is the point of education?
We have a 15 year old house guest from Germany. Goes to a grammar school and is bright and interested in things.
I gave her the Youtube video to watch which shows a man asking American university students about whether they believe him if he (a medium height 40 year white old man) tells them that he's a completely different type of person. She watched it and then told me she would have believed the man. I asked her if she would believe me if I, a middle-aged woman, told her I was a 5 year old boy. She said she would. If I say I am a 5 year old boy, then I am.
Does the human species deserve to survive?

OP posts:
Niar · 28/07/2021 18:12

@YellowClouds

Hi Mum, yeah the exchange trip is going well, although the woman is a bit full on, keeps badgering me with loads of question and scenarios. She seems to think she's a 5 year old boy and her cat is a dog. She also asks if my friends watch porn and sexually harass girls.

Apart from that all good, tho been a bit rainy!

Agreed, involving the 15 year old houseguest in conversations about porn is completely inappropriate FFS.
entrytohr · 28/07/2021 18:15

I don't see how this is any less a safeguarding concern than somebody trying to push religious ideologies on vulnerable people? She's a teenager, presumably away from her parents, in a foreign country and strange house. She's therefore vulnerable, and trying to push your views on her to "test the waters" is concerning. Regardless of what those views are.

dyslek · 28/07/2021 18:48

Im loving the faux safeguarding concern above Grin

This is from people who think gender non conforming children should be medically and surgically experimented on and that safeguarding that conflicts with what certain adults want should be banned.

secondbellini · 28/07/2021 19:02

‘Should an under-18 exchange student or their family be made aware if one of the adult women in the host family is a trans woman? If not, why is being given no choice other than to accept an ideological position from your host ok, but being simply asked to consider an ideological position by your host is not?’

They are not being asked to accept an ideological position though. There’s just a trans woman in the house.

Chickenyhead · 28/07/2021 19:03

So, a man by sex?

secondbellini · 28/07/2021 19:05

Yes.

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 28/07/2021 19:17

I’ve just reread 1984. My enduring thought is that I hadn’t realised it was written as a handbook!

2+2=5 OP. All you have to do is train your brain to forget everything you know and allow the prevailing narrative to fill the gaps.

Blibbyblobby · 28/07/2021 19:21

They are not being asked to accept an ideological position though. There’s just a trans woman in the house.

They are certainly being asked to play along with an ideological stance they may not share and may well find regressive and insulting.

Unless of course the trans woman in question understands herself to be a man adopting a female coded social persona rather than claiming to share an undefined and unmeasureable "womaness" that is somehow more significant than the experience of a female body in a patriarchal society.

I still don't understand why showing a 15 year old teenager an age-appropriate video in the context of a conversation is terrible but expecting the same 15 year old to pay obsiquience to an ideological "truth" about a person in power over them is a-ok.

Original poster
567fedup · 28/07/2021 19:43

Just to reassure those of you who are expressing kind concern for the teenager.
The mum and the girl herself have asked me to help her with the English her class has been doing at school recently. This mostly consists of a chapter of a textbook, about teenagers. This includes a section on whether it's better to be a girl or a boy, with quotes from teenagers talking about things like sexual and appearance pressures and discrimination, with the majority saying that it's better to be a boy. It's in the context of a discussion about this that we discussed the trans issue and the fact that recent research in many UK schools found that sexual harassment and the use of porn was rife, which is happily not the case in the German teenager's school. I didn't go into any details of pornography or sexual harassment (!), but in the context of this discussion asked whether there was an issue with boys looking at porn or hassling girls.
The girl is very comfortable and happy - lots of laughter. She is joking about the cat actually being a dog.
On the other issue - there is no way I would feel comfortable having a teenage girl from another family in my house without informing the parents that a man would be in the house. And I'm quite sure that the parents would expect to know that. There is absolutely no way it would be acceptable for me to mention that there would be another woman in the house, when in fact that person was a biological male. Whether you like it or not, parents care about that stuff. I suspect teenage girls do too.

OP posts:
secondbellini · 28/07/2021 20:19

‘They are certainly being asked to play along with an ideological stance they may not share and may well find regressive and insulting.’

No they aren’t. This is all just wild speculation on a fictitious scenario.

All that was said was that there was a trans woman in the house.

Nobody said that the child would have to claim to believe anything about the situation, that the parents of the child had been told it was a single sex household or any of the other additional facts that are now being added to this scenario.

The scenario given for the fictional situation was an exchange student being housed in a house with a trans woman. Female exchange students are put in homes with men in all the time.

The OP has decided to talk to the real 15 year old about porn. Not acceptable with someone else’s child.

Chickenyhead · 28/07/2021 20:24

But that 15 year old was expected to labour under the total misrepresentation that a transwoman wasn't a man by sex.

secondbellini · 28/07/2021 20:27

No, they weren’t. The vast majority of people understand that trans people are not really the opposite sex from their actual sex.

Blibbyblobby · 28/07/2021 20:29

All that was said was that there was a trans woman in the house.

I posted the hypothetical scenario, and I specifically said "Should an under-18 exchange student or their family be made aware if one of the adult women in the host family is a trans woman?" So, the trans woman has been presented as an adult woman. Not necessarily a single sex household, but certainly a male presented as a female.

Original poster
567fedup · 28/07/2021 20:30

I totally disagree that it is not acceptable to mention that research has shown that some secondary school boys in the UK look at porn, to a 15 year old and in a discussion they have asked for about the pros and cons of being a teenage girl or boy, which has already, in the textbook, mentioned sexual pressure on girls. Do you really think that 15 year olds have never heard of the existence of porn? If not (somehow) I did not say what porn was, I only mentioned the word porn (which they were of course familiar with). How ridiculous.
I would not accept a teenage girl into my house without the parents knowing that there was a biological man in the house. I would be unhappy if that was done to my own DD. And informing them that there is a woman in the house when that person is a biological male is deliberately misleading and worst case scenario might result in a legal claim.

OP posts:
secondbellini · 28/07/2021 20:31

Yes, and we live in a world in which sometimes we socially come into contact with trans people, and we just say, oh hello Sheila, or whatever, knowing that they are a man called Sheila.

As long as it isn’t in an environment that is supposed to be single sex, what is the issue?

secondbellini · 28/07/2021 20:34

I know 15 year olds have heard of porn, I know 15 year olds will not admit to discomfort to be polite, and I would not talk to someone else’s daughter about porn or similar because it is inappropriate.

Blibbyblobby · 28/07/2021 20:36

@secondbellini

No, they weren’t. The vast majority of people understand that trans people are not really the opposite sex from their actual sex.
Of course they do.

They just aren't allowed to mention it, or to have any public or semi-public situations where it's ok to exclude by sex rather than gender.

secondbellini · 28/07/2021 20:40

There is a lot of censorship and restriction in the workplace around transgenderism, but most people outside of work don’t pretend to believe in it outside of work, in my experience.

Blibbyblobby · 28/07/2021 20:48

@secondbellini

There is a lot of censorship and restriction in the workplace around transgenderism, but most people outside of work don’t pretend to believe in it outside of work, in my experience.
Sadly some of the people who do believe it, or pretend to believe it, are politicians, judges, news reporters and so forth, and they are changing precedents and laws to favour gender, often self-reported, over sex.

And the 15 year old in the OP's post believes it, and several posters who have replied as well.

They may not believe a male is actually a female, but they certainly believe a male's conception of himself as a woman has equal authority and weight as a female's lived experience in her body, and so the former has a fair claim on everything previously ringfenced for the latter.

Holly60 · 28/07/2021 20:50

@sailmeaway

Such a weird thing to do to a teenage house guest, IMHO, she probably thinks you're barking...
This. I wonder what her parents would think about you doing this….
Original poster
567fedup · 28/07/2021 20:57

We are a single sex family, in fact, and it is quite possible that that is important to the girl's parents.
So if you are a single parent - a father - and are a transwoman, would you enter into a language exchange for your child with a teenage girl, putting yourself forward as a woman? Do you really think that's ok?

OP posts:
Original poster
567fedup · 28/07/2021 20:58

Just read the full thread, Holly, why don't you?

OP posts:
JulesRimetStillGleaming · 28/07/2021 20:58

I went to Germany on an exchange at the same age and the brother of the house insisted on playing the Little Lord Fauntleroy video and wouldn't take no for an answer until I agreed that it was representative of what the UK is like. I thought he was barking. I think this was a little much to expect a guest in your house to engage with.

Cruiser123 · 28/07/2021 21:00

I find it weird that this conversation came up in the first place.

Did you push the conversation?

At that age, a cultural exchange should be about language, sightseeing (maybe not in covid times, but you get what I mean) and exploring food.

It's also weird that you try to turn her into an official spokesperson for the country of Germany.

Original poster
567fedup · 28/07/2021 21:01

Cruiser - you don't seem to have read the full thread, which explains in detail why the conversation came up? So why comment?

OP posts: