Is it only white middle class women who are GC?

[Ziegfeld]

I recently summoned courage to have “the talk” with an old friend who is gay. I wanted to know his current thoughts on sex based rights, and I thought (as we are old friends) even if we disagreed we could have a civilised conversation about it.

Unfortunately I think he called me transphobic about five minutes into the conversation when I asked, so if we say let’s have self ID, how do we tell whether someone genuinely believes themselves to be a TW or is a man simply announcing he is a woman solely for the purposes of accessing women-only spaces for bad intent. ( His answers to that were “well we need safeguarding” and “there are hardly any TWs, this isn’t a real concern” and “well ideally we should all just have gender neutral changing rooms”)

Some more things were said by both of us which I won’t go into here because I am sure we’ve all heard them before.

But then he said that it’s only white middle class women (like me) who have a problem with self ID and allowing TW access to women’s spaces. He said that working class women and women of colour have no problem at all with it.

I don’t think this is true - look at Allison Bailey for example. But I would be interested to know what other MNers think. Is this a race and class issue? Or is it that white middle class women tend to have more platforms to speak out than other women?

@Deliriumoftheendless

Oh dear, is there some competition tonight for which poster can be the most outrageously goady?

😂😂

It's been said before. They can go ahead and be goady as they like as it all shines a light. I don't think the goady dudes understand that. Also, the women on here have seen it all before and are pretty professional by now at highlighting flaws in the arguments.

Just had to go back and check what the title of this thread was because I'd the usual derail. Same old regurgitation of the same old shite.

*because of

Oh, fuck off. Another TRA. And more bullshit.

Summed up: Men, however they identify, will do what they want, when they want and theres nothing you can do about it ladies because their safety and wants matter most.

I'd offer the finger up emoji here but Mumsnet is too polite. Glad the intelligence of all the fine women here means these total walkers just show themselves up.

Don't let youself be goaded, my dears.

Just a simple 'No thank you' suffices when a poster insists your rights will be trampled and calls you names when you object.

Bullies on the internet are all piss and wind. Keep going, hold your heads up. We are not where we were 5 years ago, and the attempts to squash us are increasingly transparent.

Remember to take breaks too. You matter.

Wankers

But hoooooow can weee teeellll who the men and who the women are?? It’s soooo hard!!!

God it’s pathetic really

Men know exactly what a woman is when it comes to which sex give birth and therefore whose reproductive choices they want to try & control (and I’m childless before you even think about starting with “oooh are women who don’t give birth nor women then?? I can’t give birth becatse my biology is malfunctioning not because I’m a man who never had the right biology to start with)

There are plenty of transwomen who actually respect women, do not use women's spaces and would happily campaign with women for third spaces.

This bears repeating.

They can go ahead and be goady as they like as it all shines a light. I don't think the goady dudes understand that.

yes indeed. if a woman was ambivalent about sharing single sex spaces with some males, reading the 'fuck off we'll do what we like' messages from those males must certainly help them to decide which side of the fence to land on

Just get real and stop being such utter, flimsy, squealing snowflakes

Lovely

It really does make women feel so secure when we’re called names and told to get over ourselves by people who make it clear they don’t just not respect our boundaries, but that they don’t believe they exist.

No, thank you.

Anyway, dragging the thread back to its original topic, no I don’t think that the erosion of women’s spaces, protections and sports is a white middle class concern, though it suits some people to frame it like that.

When I was leafletting in the consultation period on the GRA in 2018, by far the biggest reaction and most interest we had was in a very non posh, predominantly BAME area, and the people who took the most leaflets and had the most interaction with me were young black women, and women in hijab.

@FloralBunting

Don't let youself be goaded, my dears.

Just a simple 'No thank you' suffices when a poster insists your rights will be trampled and calls you names when you object.

Bullies on the internet are all piss and wind. Keep going, hold your heads up. We are not where we were 5 years ago, and the attempts to squash us are increasingly transparent.

Remember to take breaks too. You matter.

Don't think I can do this anymore.

I mean, I'm pretty scared of men and here is one telling me that he will do whatever he wants to do as a man and that I'm not safe anywhere.

I mean I've been pretty shocked before, but I didn't expect the last few attacks on here over the last 24 hours.

Definitely need to walk away, but what are we supposed to do in real life when confronted with this?

Because I will wet myself in fear and no, it wouldn't be the first time. How do I navigate this?

How do I live? What do I teach my daughters?

Chickeny

You matter.

So am guessing that the warning that my gay son gave me about transphobic bigots on MN was true. Really expected more tolerance and empathy, transwomen are often horribly abused and maltreated, we should stand with them.

Has some sort of bat signal gone out today or something? It's like a tag team of plopping, goading and other associated nonsense.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

So am guessing that the warning that my gay son gave me about transphobic bigots on MN was true. Really expected more tolerance and empathy, transwomen are often horribly abused and maltreated, we should stand with them.

Yet here you are🙄

It’s like when one little kid starts misbehaving and the the other one starts up because the first kid is getting loads of attention.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

So am guessing that the warning that my gay son gave me about transphobic bigots on MN was true. Really expected more tolerance and empathy, transwomen are often horribly abused and maltreated, we should stand with them.

Why not hang around on fwr and actually properly read some threads and then decide for yourself rather than listening to someone else who has read the propaganda rather than the content? I think you'll find something different to what you expected.

Loads of non-white rad fems on Twitter op. Off the top of my head....

@claireshrugged
@ZLGBAlliance_IND
@RadfemBlack
@Aja02537920
Chimamanda Ngozi Adiche
@BlueskyeAllison

Also "still not your sis" on twitter

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

So am guessing that the warning that my gay son gave me about transphobic bigots on MN was true. Really expected more tolerance and empathy, transwomen are often horribly abused and maltreated, we should stand with them.

I would have expected a little more tolerance and understanding than posting this straight after chickeneys post. The causal dismissal of women's experiences of male violence is appalling. Maybe you should practice what you preach.

I stand with women.

When I was leafletting in the consultation period on the GRA in 2018, by far the biggest reaction and most interest we had was in a very non posh, predominantly BAME area, and the people who took the most leaflets and had the most interaction with me were young black women, and women in hijab.

Yup. Black, Arabic, Asian and South East Asian have very strong views about this. Naturally GC views. Well, amongst my family, friendship and work circles and their circles.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

So am guessing that the warning that my gay son gave me about transphobic bigots on MN was true. Really expected more tolerance and empathy, transwomen are often horribly abused and maltreated, we should stand with them.

Want to read the room (or the thread) before posting about how lacking in empathy and how horrible women are? FFS.

NannyOggsWhiskyStash

Gordon Bennett. Fancy posting that flippant dismissal right after Chickenyhead's post. I'd be wanting the earth to swallow me up, if I were you.

Chickeny . Have you got support out there? There's plenty for you here, too. Be excessively kind to yourself.