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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DM article - interview with female attacked in prison.

173 replies

DevonTF · 23/07/2021 22:58

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819631/I-sexually-assaulted-womens-prison-fellow-inmate-male-genitalia.html.

Article in the DM - interview with a female prisoner assaulted in prison by a female identifying male. Awful to read, but it is showing the reality of this.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 24/07/2021 14:44

RedDogsBeg Apologies for not including background.

STILLTish's 2019 article provides this,

"HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN GOING ON?
Biological Males in the Female Prison Estate.
(extract)
It came as a shock to find that pre-operative “transgender” males were being housed in the female prison estate. Given the jaw dropping idiocy of the policy I assumed, wrongly, this was a recent phenomenon, a temporary loss of State Sanity. I was wrong. While high profile cases, which resulted in sexual assaults on female inmates, (see Karen White and Paris Green ), have only just penetrated the public consciousness, it is not a recent aberration. It is policy. This has been going on since at least 2009!

The claimant, in the above case, was a pre-operative, transgender male who had been convicted of manslaughter and imprisoned. 5 days after his release he committed an attempted rape. Following this offence he was returned to prison and sentenced to life imprisonment.

The prisoner had been granted a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in 2006. Thus, only two years after the Gender Recognition Act (GRA)had been passed, a bodily intact, biological male, who would go on to commit attempted rape, was recognised as a “woman” for all purposes. Because of this legislation the prisoner was allowed to mount a legal challenge to his incarceration, in the male estate." (continues)
gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/08/11/how-long-has-this-been-going-on/

R0wantrees · 24/07/2021 14:51
I believe there is only one Dr James Barrett at Charing Cross GIC.

Article from ;The Friend'
‘It is soul-crushing and miserable for anyone to live pretending to be something they are not.’
11 Apr 2019

(extract)
James Barrett runs Britain’s largest and oldest gender identity clinic. In the first of a Friend series on gender identity issues, he gives his reflections on thirty years of work.

"In my working life I have spent over thirty years in a gender identity clinic, working with and trying to help people whose sense of themselves doesn’t fit the gender role they were assigned at birth. I’m a doctor – effectively a practitioner scientist – and in the course of what can sometimes be fairly high publicity work my being a Quaker doesn’t usually arise. It would be obvious only to those already sensitive to the occasional Quakerly turn of phrase or point of view. It’s a strangely reversed experience, therefore, to be in the company of Friends who mainly know me as a fellow Quaker and in this context talk about gender. It’s not something that I have previously done because it hasn’t generally arisen, but since it has, mine is a perspective unshared until now.(continues)

Gender’, in fact, firms up a bit on closer examination and a bit of linguistic dissection. There is, for example, ‘gender’ used to describe the way anyone has a sense of themselves. Most people feel male or feel female (a few people feel neither or a bit of both). For most people that sense of themselves fits their body and the label that came on their birth certificate. For a few people, it does not. How anyone feels can’t be argued with; it’s their reality.

Then there is a social gender role. This is the way we are perceived by society and as a consequence are expected to behave, to dress, to work (this to a pleasingly diminishing extent) and even, perhaps, to think. It predicts how others expect us to behave, too. Others might expect us to be collaborative, communicative and nurturing if we are perceived as female, competitive, overbearing and maybe even violent if we are perceived as male.

It is soul-crushing and miserable for anyone to live their lives pretending to be something they are not, no matter how good the pretence they put up. As a society we don’t ask people to conceal their religious or political views; as Quakers we always took the opposite stance. Even if ethnicity could be concealed, as a society we wouldn’t suggest it and as Quakers we would be at the forefront of opposition to such a thing. History eloquently records the blighted lives of gay and lesbian people who tried to live as if they were straight, which is why it’s not required any more, and as Quakers we led the way in ending that requirement. It is equally soul-crushing to live in an inauthentic social gender role. Just as life-enhancing to, at last, be able to be one’s true self." (continues)
thefriend.org/article/it-is-soul-crushing-and-miserable-for-anyone-to-live-pretending-to-be-somet

DdraigGoch · 24/07/2021 14:52

@DevonTF

Cllr Emma Edwards - Green Councillor in Bristol has responded to the article on twitter. Ignores the reality in the article - and calls CG women out 'lying with dogs. How are these people blind to the reality of all of this ?
Even the soppiest dog will guard its owner with its life if it feels that they are threatened. I've heard plenty of tales of women walking their dogs after dark and the dog has randomly turned around and snarled, causing a prowler to scarper. A dog who would otherwise run from a pigeon.
YouJustDoYou · 24/07/2021 14:54

It's like putting a convicted paedo in with kids, no one in their right mind would do it, but as we all know, women don't matter and are the sacrificial lambs in all of this, just as long as the convicted sex offending transwomen are happy, that's all that matters, right?

Utterly utterly frightening and dystopian.

RedDogsBeg · 24/07/2021 14:56

No apologies necessary R0wantrees your expert knowledge and evidence is astounding. It's just so obvious the sinister intent behind all this and the fact that women are seen as worth so little it is happily accepted by those in power that they will serve as tools and collateral damage. I am so bloody angry.

I will be throwing this in the face of any politician, Judge or whoever who claims to be shocked and upset and devastated by VAWG, they are not it is just soundbites to appease the masses, women are held in utter contempt by the whole lot of them.

DdraigGoch · 24/07/2021 14:57

Pressed post too soon.

Last sentence was "so if you lie down with dogs, you stay safe."

GromblesofGrimbledon · 24/07/2021 14:58

@R0wantrees

I'm seething after reading that.

DM article - interview with female attacked in prison.
MondayYogurt · 24/07/2021 15:05

@R0wantrees The reddit link I posted has a lot of negative reviews of him from trans people. He seems to want to impose his views on them, without providing any space for their own thoughts. I think this is telling.

R0wantrees · 24/07/2021 15:05

I will be throwing this in the face of any politician, Judge or whoever who claims to be shocked and upset and devastated by VAWG, they are not it is just soundbites to appease the masses, women are held in utter contempt by the whole lot of them.

Further background from Keep Prisons Single Sex to add to the bundle:
www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/karen-jones
(extract)
"In 2018, the Daily Mail reported that Jones had been invited by Lord Patel, Chairman of the Community Innovations Enterprise, to address a reception at the House of Lords to launch the review, Inside Gender Identity: A Report on meeting Health and Social Needs of Transgender People in the Criminal Justice System. Lord Patel was fully aware of the full nature of his crimes (Emily Hall & James Fielding, MailOnline, 27 February 2018)."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2021 15:09

I seem to remember that a representative of the HOL offered to meet with a MNer to discuss Karen Jones being asked to visit, she asked Datun to come with her but they never did manage to find a slot in the calendar. Is that right, @Datun?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 24/07/2021 15:14

Karen Jones has also addressed healthcare trusts on transgender
and equality matters, as has Kellie Maloney.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3571441-Times-article-Police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training

R0wantrees · 24/07/2021 15:20

[quote MondayYogurt]@R0wantrees The reddit link I posted has a lot of negative reviews of him from trans people. He seems to want to impose his views on them, without providing any space for their own thoughts. I think this is telling. [/quote]
Gender Identity medicine is not built on a firm evidence-base. There are many examples of unsafe/unsound practice that would not be tolerated in other parts of health and social care.

relevant threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3896788-Important-series-of-articles-by-Dr-Em-Sexist-History-at-the-Heart-of-the-Science-on-Transsexualism-Part-I-Benjamin-Ihlenfeld-Money-Ehrhardt

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3900484-Dr-Em-article-Sexist-History-at-the-Heart-of-the-Science-on-Transsexualism-Part-II-Robert-Stoller-True-Trans-an-ideology-which-is-antithetical-to-feminism

R0wantrees · 24/07/2021 15:24

@YouJustDoYou

It's like putting a convicted paedo in with kids, no one in their right mind would do it, but as we all know, women don't matter and are the sacrificial lambs in all of this, just as long as the convicted sex offending transwomen are happy, that's all that matters, right?

Utterly utterly frightening and dystopian.

Its well-recognised that predatory paedophiles will often target vulnerable/isolated single mothers. Many of the women in prison/ bail hostels will be in this at risk group.
RedDogsBeg · 24/07/2021 15:34

Many thanks R0wantrees I'm saving it all.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 24/07/2021 16:29

Just when you thought things couldn't get worse....

As soon as J received a GRC, the risk assessment tool that is used for adult men convicted of sexual or sexually motivated offences, can no longer be used when risk assessing them. This is because this tool is not for use with women: there is no alternative risk assessment tool for use with female offenders.

This is forever more. When considering release, post-release accommodation, every point of assessment within the CJS will not risk assess J as J should be assessed, and as J would have been assessed were it not for possession of a GRC.

The answer to a FOIA I asked showed that no consideration was given to the impact on women in prison or on women and children in the community when a prisoner is being considered for release.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2021 16:31

That's ludicrous. And yet another reason to get rid of the GRA.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/07/2021 16:36

@KeepPrisonsSingleSex

Just when you thought things couldn't get worse....

As soon as J received a GRC, the risk assessment tool that is used for adult men convicted of sexual or sexually motivated offences, can no longer be used when risk assessing them. This is because this tool is not for use with women: there is no alternative risk assessment tool for use with female offenders.

This is forever more. When considering release, post-release accommodation, every point of assessment within the CJS will not risk assess J as J should be assessed, and as J would have been assessed were it not for possession of a GRC.

The answer to a FOIA I asked showed that no consideration was given to the impact on women in prison or on women and children in the community when a prisoner is being considered for release.

That's terrifying KeepPrisonsSingleSex Yet another get out clause from safeguarding rules for these sex offenders argued for and mediated presumably by trans lobby groups? And they claim that they're the good guys!! I sincerely hope that this piece of information hits the front pages soon . The government, MoJ, the parole board & lobby groups colluding to ensure that the public are not protected from sex offenders with a GRC. How much more evidence is needed to demonstrate that these organisations are not acting in the interests of society?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2021 16:47

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I make it that there are at least 4 GRC holding biological males who are serious sex offenders or violent offenders who have been or are in prison? The three in the Downsview unit, and Karen Jones. That's quite a high proportion of a cohort of males which only numbers a few thousand, no? So either something is wrong with the GRC approval process, or there is possibly other issues that need looking at.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/07/2021 16:52

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I make it that there are at least 4 GRC holding biological males who are serious sex offenders or violent offenders who have been or are in prison? The three in the Downsview unit, and Karen Jones. That's quite a high proportion of a cohort of males which only numbers a few thousand, no? So either something is wrong with the GRC approval process, or there is possibly other issues that need looking at.
Good point. Isn't there also an issue about the alacrity with which the MoJ leaps to offer special support / medical treatment to men who self identify as women - don't they get privileged access to surgery etc? All paid for by the tax payer? I expect the MoJ got special brownie points from Stonewall for enabling this.
KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 24/07/2021 16:53

We understand from the JR that there is currently a number of GRC holders in the female estate that is in single figures. Alex Chalk has stated that from 2021 published data will also include numbers of GRC holders in prison, which has thus far not been reported.

It is impossible to know how many GRC holders have been in the female estate - we can only count those who have been reported in the media.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 24/07/2021 16:54

We also know that prisoners, including violent and sexual offenders, have been able to obtain GRCs in prison.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2021 16:56

Yes I imagine it may possibly be more. The Downsview unit was for GRC holding biological males considered too dangerous for the general population, wasn't it?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/07/2021 16:56

Worth remembering that we would know none of this if it wasn't for all the persistent and courageous women and groups investigating behind the #nodebate instructions from the organisations promoting all this.

RedDogsBeg · 24/07/2021 16:57

Aren't there also non-GRC holders who are also violent and sex offenders within the female estate because the MoJ said they don't ask for proof just take the word of the person stating they are a woman? I mean no criminal would ever lie would they?

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