DM article - interview with female attacked in prison.

[DevonTF]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819631/I-sexually-assaulted-womens-prison-fellow-inmate-male-genitalia.html.

Article in the DM - interview with a female prisoner assaulted in prison by a female identifying male. Awful to read, but it is showing the reality of this.

Good to see this article and also that crimes committed by those with a GRC aren't counted with birth sex. People need to know these "details".

It's also useful to have this documented in the National press because I've seen it raised as a "What if?" abroad and responded to with "Never happens". This is easily searchable.

I'm interested in what's happening in Scotland with women's prisons (there's only one or two I think?). The former head of women's prisons in Scotland came out and said there's a problem, but otherwise there's been radio silence.

I look forward to the 'we just want to pee' brigade and the 'my best friend is a lovely transwoman and you're all just hateful bigots for suggesting there might ever be a conflict of rights' club coming along to defend this policy.

Waits patiently.

Amy is an incredibly brave woman for speaking out and challenging the prison policy. Just awful. What a barbaric situation for all the women in prison. Manipulative sex offenders and pedophiles have everyone wrapped around their finger with the pretence of human rights, and free to terrorise and intimidate women. I'm so disgusted and angry. We need marches and rallies for this - protests and show of support for women prisoners outside prisons, protests on streets to inform public. Incredibly vile ideology that has enabled this warped hell on female prisoners. How can anyone continue to support this?

Bumping ...

Very interesting to see someone posting on this thread to attempt to discredit Julie Bindel. I mean, probably best to do some research on the author before posting if you didn’t want you post to be completely laughed at.

Well done to the Daily Mail for publishing this. How can any person, man or woman, think that allowing this situation is ok.

Edgeofacoin along with the “look this is awful but it’s just one case” brigade

Brilliantly written.

And an example of how pernicious using female pronouns for male sex offenders is.

Oh, and a reminder how wonderful it is to live in a country that has plurality of press. Imagine if all those hate campaigns against the Mail had succeeded. Reckon the Guardian or the Independent would have run this - an article explaining in the simplest terms how evil these policies are? Nah.

Kudos to you, Amy, for speaking out. And the judge should be ashamed of himself for those comments.

What was most disturbing to me about the judge's comments was his dismissive attitude to the statistics - it doesnt matter if there has been only 1 assault (let alone 34). There should be none because women should not have to fear being sexually assaulted by males in a fucking female prison.

It reminds me of an argument I had on social media with a male handmaiden who - when I asked my usual "how do we know if the man in the dress in a woman's changing room is a "cis" predator or "genuine" trans woman?" basically responded along the lines of "well you'll know if you get assaulted".

NO you utter fucking cockwomble. Me getting assaulted is not an acceptable barometer by which to judge people. That is the very fucking heart of safeguarding.

Tangential to that - one of Rowantrees 's compilations:

Jay Stewart of Gendered Intelligence (they that wrote the Girl Guides policy for trans inclusion) sits on the board that manages trans prisoners.

CPS Transgender Equality Management Guidance

acknowledges the input of the CPS Community Accountability Forum Transgender Equality Sub-Group:
Hal Barraclough a:gender
Penny Bassi TransWirral
Felix Fenlon Laws Training
Deborah Gold Galop
Christl Hughes GIRES
Helen Laws Laws Training
Jane McQueen Press for Change
Catherine Poulton TREC
Emma Roebuck GADD
Dr Lewis Turner Lancashire LGBT
Stephen Whittle Press for Change
Karen Sutton Mermaids
www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/CPS%20Transgender%20Equality%20Management%20Guidance.pdf

That Mermaid link didn't work for me but this is available: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/368141/response/905033/attach/3/Mclean%20TEMG%20FINAL.PDF.pdf?

Women in Prison: www.womeninprison.org.uk/news/2020-statement-on-transgender-individuals-in-prison

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Edgeofacoin along with the “look this is awful but it’s just one case” brigade

Yes, true. I was discussing gender ideology with someone once and I pointed to the Dolotowski case to make my point. He looked uncomfortable and said 'but that's so rare...'

I said 'oh, so the girls who were assaulted are just acceptable collateral damage for this policy?'

He muttered something along the lines of no of course not, but there would always be men who seek to abuse girls.

It doesn't surprise me that there are those who believe women being assaulted in prison is an acceptable price to pay for the validation of a prisoner's gender identity.

Amy would contest this. 'Some female prisoners have been punished for 'transphobic behaviour' when complaining about transwomen being housed among us. It's outrageous. How could they not recognise the danger we were in?
'J is a serious sex offender. This judge's decision is insulting to her victims, to all female prisoners and to women everywhere. At least this case will have alerted the authorities to how dangerous J is.'

How fucking dare they punish women for that.

Have you seen Rhona Hotchkiss on this? Ex governor of Cornton Vale. She’s fantastic

m.youtube.com/watch?v=KpfTBEXqGQM

bet every woman in prison would have been delighted to have a sign on the door not letting anyone else in while they were in the shower.
I can't imagine any woman would say it was against their human rights to shower alone.

Exactly. It's exactly the same as what happened, in a different scenario with 17 year old Lila Perry when schoolgirls, many younger teenagers, objected to the presence of a male in the female changing room. That one didn't want the privacy either, and demanded to be treated exactly the same as the girls.

This is what transactivism means, there are only some "human rights" that are important, and people are so little concerned for the feelings and wishes of women and girls that they are basically irrelevant.

sex-matters.org/posts/prisons/prison_jr/

Link to sexmatters - some examples of the people they can place in women's prisons. Sick of being gaslighted - 'Stunning and Brave', just want to be accepted. We just want to be safe.

I do feel that the DM is pretty much the only mainstream press that is reporting on this. The guardian is abhorrent - read an article that described the protest against the WI Spa incident, headline started with 'Anti-Trans protesters'.

The guardian is abhorrent - read an article that described the protest against the WI Spa incident, headline started with 'Anti-Trans protesters'.

Thread here:

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4299520-The-Guardian-have-upped-their-game-we-re-now-Anti-trans-for-asking-for-same-sex-spaces

If I was in a communal shower area I would actually be happy to have a sign stating I would have complete privacy. I am body conscious but accept nudity in female only changing rooms.

I am trying to get my head around someone actually wanting to walk around nude in a confined prison shower.

I’ve been so disturbed by this issue, and the DM article really brought it viscerally alive.
The thing that I also find so disturbing is- how can women trust the police and the judiciary when male rapists who beat the odds and ARE successfully charged/ sentenced etc are then put in the female estate where they can access more victims. What’s the point in even going to the police and reporting a rape? The rapist might be free outside if he goes uncharged but he’ll also be ‘free’ to attack inside as well. It makes a mockery of the ENTIRE process of being brought to justice.

(Please note this is not a commentary on whether women should report rapes and I apologise if it looks as if I am discouraging it. It’s a commentary on the abject failure of the police, judiciary and prison system to keep women safe on absolutely every level).

Amy is very brave. I dug for the last case and I’ll dig again for any future ones.

More sunlight. Amy is very brave and I hope her next legal action is successful.

It cannot be allowed to stand that males can be legally housed in women's prisons, it simply cannot.

I applaud the DM for reporting on this. The Times is getting there too.

In my everyday real life when I’ve dared to broach a discussion around this, most people are unaware it is happening and when they hear about it they are pretty appalled by it. The comments on the article reflect that. It’s good to see Amy’s experience told so baldly, no euphemisms, and in black and white white. She’s very brave.

so pleased to see this hitting the mainstream press

and as for a male wanting to walk around naked in the presence of women. Let's recap on the subject of the crime of indecent exposure. The motivation is to gain sexual gratification by causing fear and embarrassment to the victims. As in the case of the perpetrator of the rape and murder of Sarah Everard, it is often a gateway crime to more serious sexual offenses.

Any institution that allows males to expose themselves to unwilling women is facilitating sexual offending.

@Forgotthebins

NiceGerbil if I remember past threads correctly, Stephen Whittle and Press for Change saw the issue of prisons as strategically important for self ID in Scotland. Will try to find a link.

I think it was James Morton who was involved in writing prisons policy in Scotland. The argument was something like 'if we can make it acceptable for males to be in women's prisons (where women are physically unable to leave if they feel unsafe or uncomfortable) then it will be acceptable to open all women's spaces to males (where women will be able to leave)'.

As a pp said, there are all the posters who will post on every and all posts on this board to tell us how transphobic we are? I won't tag names because I'm aware it's considered bad etiquette but seriously, where are you? Come and justify this!

Or finally FINALLY admit that women are acceptable collateral damage in your eyes.

Brilliant piece. Is there a garden for Amy? I'd love to dig for her.