The Guardian have upped their game, we’re now Anti-trans for asking for same-sex spaces

[AMCoffeePMWine]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/18/dozens-arrested-in-los-angeles-as-anti-trans-protest-outside-spa-turns-violent

“Women carrying signs reading “protect female spaces” and “It’s worse in women’s shelters”. Calls to defend “female spaces” and “women’s shelters” have become rallying cries of anti-trans groups, who have falsely suggested that trans-inclusive policies endanger cis women.”

This, according to the Guardian, is what makes women anti-trans. It’s infuriating. Using “Falsely” to describe women’s experiences of having biological males in female spaces.

All this from one woman saying No to willies waggling in front of women and girls.

This story doesn't seem like it will go away anytime soon. There's so many competing narratives. Yesterday, Patricia Arquette tweeted an article from Slate about it being a hoax and in the replies there is a guy saying he witnessed the confrontation in reception. He's posted a video too.

twitter.com/bennetkelley/status/1416561456741421056?s=19

Just catching up with all this and it's appalling. Lost count of how many times they described it as a 'far right' protest.

It's such a dishonest tactic. How many people stop from speaking out on this issue for fear of being labelled far right? I certainly did.

Coming out the other side and seeing it for what it really is makes such a difference.

”safeguarding should be inclusive”

........what does that even mean? It's a nice sounding piece of burble, but what on earth does that translate into in terms of plain English?

This is what I was wondering, surely we are be inclusive by saying that anyone and everyone could be a potential danger and therefore should be subject to rigorous scrutiny?

@EyesOpening

”safeguarding should be inclusive”

........what does that even mean? It's a nice sounding piece of burble, but what on earth does that translate into in terms of plain English?

This is what I was wondering, surely we are be inclusive by saying that anyone and everyone could be a potential danger and therefore should be subject to rigorous scrutiny?

Very much so.

Safeguarding is also always fully inclusive that it applies equally, to everyone, without exception.

It sounds very much like 'safeguarding should be flexibly applied and loosened in consideration of some adults who find the boundaries it presents to protect others to be inconvenient to their own wants and needs'.

Reminds me of almost every serious case review I've ever read, which sooner or later finds that the needs of vocal, needing adults in the situation took over time, energy, attention, focus that should have gone to the person in need of safeguarding. And so safeguarding failed.

No one who can say 'safeguarding should be inclusive' can know one single thing in reality about safeguarding.

I remain very sceptical on this! I'm all for safeguarding, but it needs to be appropriate, proportionate and inclusive. Not based on fear of a minority.

Oh honey...... No.

@Aparallaxia

I just cancelled my recurring monthly contribution to the Guardian. I've been reading it since it was the Manchester Guardian and I feel like I've had an argument with a really old friend. I left them an angry message explaining why I was doing this. Made me feel about 1% better.

when I cancelled my sub I had to speak to them - and I got a a young man - I told him why I was cancelling, i.e. that I thought the Guardian was betraying women and our rights by not recognising the conflicts raised by the push for trans "rights" - he said I was not the only woman who'd told him that was why they were unsubscribing.

They will be logging this - they know. They don't seem to care though.

I wrote earlier I'd stopped my additional contributions to the Graun. Now I've stopped the monthly ones as well. I wrote explaining why. I doubt it'll do any good. There can't be many Graun readers in Los Angeles. Now there's one fewer.

BTW, as someone wrote earlier, the Wi Spa is in Korean town, not in Boys' Town ( = the area around Santa Monica Blvd in West Hollywood). Many Koreans are Christian and also fairly conservative politically.

Saw this earlier and nearly puked. Such ridiculous nonsense, where is the balanced journalism? This reads like some third rate blog post.

I only hope it tweaks more people to the madness of this cult-like thinking.
Like our very own Mishi who is a great beacon of bullshit and never fails to put their foot in it .

As for the Guardian losing money, they may be getting funding from Arcus Foundation or similar. It wouldn't surprise me, as it seems they are now nothing more than a TRA propaganda machine.

There are some issues which simply don't map onto conventional right/left political positions and this is definitely one. What an article, with labels flying thick and fast and assumptions clogging the works.

The icing on the cake was the asinine "Trans rights are human right" quote. What does that even mean? Nobody could argue that trans people aren't human, but where do human rights include anything that privileges trans people over women? Or men for that matter?

That's not journalism, it's a hot, sludgy spill.

I think that many lurkers who have read across recent threads will have picked up the lack of credibility some posters have.

Like posting that one of the founders of stonewall should educate themselves about gay rights history. Like starting a thread about a group that pulled out of a protest about the women who have been murdered by males recently because they said the protest wasn’t ‘inclusive’ of all women. Without further reading that the organizers of the protest have said all welcome and did everything to make sure that the numbers and victims mentioned had included males who identified as women, but there weren’t any victims. They even checked with stonewall. That level of credibility stays with a poster when they do it often enough.

So, yes Mishy. Your arguments have been well and truly shown to be simply lacking in any critical thinking. And across more than one thread on this very incident.

I highly doubt any trans person who is pre-op would want to parade around naked in a changing room or spa facility where there are other members of the public. What does happen is they use private booths, and that is the norm. If there was/is inappropriate behaviour, the police can step in.

This is a claim that all members of the trans community suffer from gender dysphoria, seek a medical transition and feel bad about their body. This is an outdated view, MishiJDI, as you are well aware. The vast majority of the members of the trans community do not seek to transition medically and the belief that they do is no longer acceptable (so we've been told by the main trans rights organisations and majority of activists).

Being trans has been uncoupled from gender dysphoria, it is now a matter of identity. That may or may not include a desire to change the body. So your bold claim is out of step with the doctrine of gender identity. Which you otherwise adhere to with fervour.

Additionally, women and girls who are naked in what they believe to be a female single sex space have not consented to be viewed by members of the opposite sex, regardless of what surgeries they may have had or dysphoria/s they may suffer from.
In some female single sex space there will be women and girls who are naked or semi-dressed. This is not 'parading'.

I don't think this 'article' was in today's Observer? I wonder if it will be in tomorrow's Guardian print edition.

Allison Bailey has tweeted that "The editors @guardian should hang their heads in shame for this piece of gutter journalism".

Not read the whole thread.

The things I saw of the protest violence looked like standard blokes out for a ruck.

The excuse for the ruck being about one side seeing women as public property and the other side as private property.

The fact that a vanishingly small number of women are ok with cocks out where women and girls are naked. And that is women of all political persuasions.

Is ignored.

That article is terrifying, @nauticant Thanks for posting, it was well worth reading. The mother in the article is amazing, thank God the children have her in their corner. The many ways that men hate woman are evident in this story.

Sunday Times
I discovered my partner was a paedophile. He took me to court 37 times to get my kids…………archive.fo/fvKRK

archive.fo/fvKRK

Hope this is clicky

Even if the protestors were "far right", would that somehow change the fact that people can't change sex?

Don't right wing women and their children deserve protection too?

Men in a violent clash with other men is fuck all to do with women.

The end.

What the fuck was that deletion for? I quoted a post about safeguarding, and how it is vital not to have 'sacred castes' who are exempt from suspicion, and that this helped me to understand my outrage at being told by a LibDem that 'there will always be loopholes'. And then made an observation, deeply pertinent in the light of Karen White.

So, let me ever so tactfully rephrase what I went on to say:
If you allow that claiming a trans identity makes someone a member of a sacred caste and thus beyond question, you are opening a massive loophole. This loophole WILL, on past form, be abused by men who wish to have unfettered access to women and children for their own gratification. Indeed, the evidence indicates that it already has been.

I did not say that all people under the trans umbrella are like this (I know that they are not, I know a transwoman who is very respectful). But the evidence does indicate that there are men who identify as trans so that they can get their dicks out in front of women and girls, or assault women in prison.

When one is angry, which I am about this whole issue, one doesn't always feel like pussyfooting around when making a point. Yet one is obliged to.

I suppose I should be flattered that someone cares enough about what I have to say to report it within minutes so early in the morning.

I can't recall anything about your post that meant it required deletion, GrumpyMiddleAgedWomnn, unless one of the real life examples of venerated occupational groups found to be riddled with child abusers is still considered above reproach on here. It's very relevant, though. People in those roles had to jump through far bigger hoops than claiming to be women on days when it suited them to get access to their preferred victims. It would be culpably naïve to imagine that men with bad intentions and no gender dysphoria whatsoever won't see gender self-identification and the erosion of protection of women's safe spaces and protected categories as something they can use to their own advantage.

I believe that the violent protests are examples of “active measures”, as explained beautifully in this short video, part of a highly recommended longer video titled Operation Infektion, which can be viewed in its entirety on youtube.

What is really shocking to me is that the Graun appears to be part of the active measures.

Their article is gaslighting, provoking and divisive.

If we compare it to the nuanced perspectives in the Fox News piece here
www.foxnews.com/media/lgbtq-community-appalled-after-transgender-exposes-male-genitalia-in-front-of-young-girls-at-la-spa

The divisive nature of the Graun piece becomes much clearer.

Not long ago I paid good money to buy the Gruan. being a Graun reader was part of my identity. Not anymore.

I never thought I would see the day when I would be recommending Fox News over the Graun.

Anyway, divide and conquer is definitely a thing with these protest groups in LA. Organising opposing groups such as far-right Qanon and anti-abortion activists against the extremists within the trans rights movement is textbook special measures.

apologies, "special measures" in the last paragraph should read "active measures"

I belive that it would be extremely helpful for women to educate ourselves about this kind of warfare as we are on the receiving end of it.

As are lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, trans people and intersex people.

The aim of active measures is to get us to fight amongst ourselves and it appears to be working very effectively

I believe that the violent protests are examples of “active measures”, as explained beautifully in this short video, part of a highly recommended longer video titled Operation Infektion, which can be viewed in its entirety on youtube.

I knew you'd have useful insights into what is happening. Thank you.

I'll watch that item.