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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner interviews Jess Philips in the Times

132 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/07/2021 09:44

Interesting read:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d8851824-e3c1-11eb-afdb-c7b01afbcfc5?shareToken=aab7b7c1ae6d3cef2a3097ebc6dfec5b

Excerpts:

She says her greatest achievement is “making women as important as bins”. Councils only had only two statutory duties: adult and children’s social services, and refuse collection. The Domestic Abuse Act adds a third: providing women’s refuges.

What surprised her when sitting on the women and equalities committee, which discussed Gender Recognition Act reforms, was the requirement of two years living “in role” as the opposite sex before changing a birth certificate. “How do you live in role as a man? Have I got to use a spanner? No one could answer that. I’ve got short hair. I’m wearing trousers. Like, it’s not an act, is it? You can’t act like a woman, because we’re all different.”

She is aghast that the modern left seeks to legitimise, even idealise, prostitution, which through her long experience in the refuge movement she sees as sexual abuse. She uses the term “prostituted women” rather than the woke euphemism “sex workers”. Moreover, she’s long been concerned about long-standing women’s refuges losing funds in favour of generic services that purport to include everyone. “If you had £1 million for domestic violence services, you’d give £800,000 to a women’s refuge based on need and numbers. Having specialist services for LGBT or male victims of domestic abuse is totally brilliant and legitimate. They’re not the same. They need different services.”

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 17/07/2021 14:15

I don't think she really gets it. There's that bit in the interview where she talks about meeting a trans woman who really wishes they could have periods. She doesn't grasp the fetishisation of womanhood that's going on there.

TinselAngel · 17/07/2021 14:16

I am genuinely mystified as to how any woman can think that Jess Phillips is gender critical. When somebody tells you who they are, believe them.

Janice Turner interviews Jess Philips in the Times
TinselAngel · 17/07/2021 14:21

@TheLeadbetterLife

Jess Phillips is great. I’m 100% sure she is gender critical, but she is also - wisely - very good at realpolitik, because she likes to get stuff done.

Some people need to do the activism and have the ideological arguments, others need to work on policy, which sometimes involves a bit of compromise on ideology. If this seems like speaking out of both sides of her mouth to some people, so be it. Her achievements speak for themselves.

Ideology is all well and good, but corbyn was an ideologue and achieved bugger all (except almost destroying the Labour Party).

So for example, part of her "real politik" is giving away trans widows rights whilst purporting to be an advocate for abused women? Really?
CardinalLolzy · 17/07/2021 14:39

I generally like her and I think her stance here is actually brave, but I think if I pressed her for consistency I might be disappointed. (As illustrated by some of the above posts).

Floisme · 17/07/2021 14:51

Did she sign that pledge about (from memory) expelling supporters of groups like WPUK from the party, or had she dropped out of the leadership contest by then? That would be a red line for me.

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 17/07/2021 15:03

@TinselAngel

I am genuinely mystified as to how any woman can think that Jess Phillips is gender critical. When somebody tells you who they are, believe them.
That was 7 months ago though. I'm wondering if she's had a change of heart.
TheNextSteps · 17/07/2021 15:16

People can change their minds. Look at Damian Barr.

TinselAngel · 17/07/2021 15:24

I'm wondering if she's had a change of heart.

I'll need to see evidence that she now supports trans widows rights rather than optimistic speculation.

merrymouse · 17/07/2021 15:35

@TinselAngel

I am genuinely mystified as to how any woman can think that Jess Phillips is gender critical. When somebody tells you who they are, believe them.
Interesting.

I have heard other people try to remain on the fence but pick out ‘spousal veto’ as something that they can easily condemn, while also discussing the issue in a way that reveals that they have no understanding of what they are talking about.

It’s odd that somebody who should have a good understanding of coercive control would talk like this.

Only possibilities can be lack of knowledge or cynical exploitation of an issue in a way that undermines everything she claims to stand for.

TinselAngel · 17/07/2021 15:47

I suspect she entirely took at face value what she was told by trans groups about it. Which doesn't say a lot for her critical thinking skills or curiosity.

Redapplewreath · 17/07/2021 15:49

Splinters in your bum there Jess?

Tactical interview. I wouldn't trust any Labour politician to be honest on women's rights any further than I can spit. Which unfortunately means continuing to be politically homeless while forced to tactically vote for whoever is currently blocking an actively anti-woman party from getting into power.

merrymouse · 17/07/2021 15:52

She doesn't grasp the fetishisation of womanhood that's going on there.

Generally I would agree, but I can also see why a ‘ha, ha, you’re lucky you don’t get periods’ would generate this response in somebody suffering from dysphoria.

bellinisurge · 17/07/2021 15:54

Perhaps Starmer coming off the fence encouraged her to jump back on it. She is hoping her force of personality will protect her .
She was dreadful on here before the election, as I recall.
Maybe she can sense which way this is going.
Rosie Duffield MP is, on the other hand, not a coward like Jess.

LizzieSiddal · 17/07/2021 16:10

I also think Phillips will have realised that simply agreeing to be interviewed by Janice Turner would be seen in some quarters as a signal. My guess is that it was a considered and deliberate choice - she must surely have known Janice would raise the issue. I'm taking it as a sign of progress.

Agree with you. It is progress for a Labour MP to be saying she doesn’t believe trans woman are female. She will get a lot of flack, she’s being called transphobic and a TERF. However I hope more Labour MPs will start being braver and speak about this. There’s no way they all think TWAW.

DeliciousSoup · 17/07/2021 16:29

I agree LizzieSiddal

oscarandelliesdad · 17/07/2021 16:38

@DecayedStrumpet

I have a lot of time for Jess Phillips, I think she does get it really but she knows what will happen to her career if she says anything. You could accuse her of cowardice, but really she's doing as much as she can while remaining within the Labour Party.

And having an actual feminist with a background in DV work as an MP, is worth the sacrifice of her having to pay lip service to TWAW. In my opinion.

Agreed.
Floisme · 17/07/2021 16:45

Yes I'm sure she could have just had a cosy chat with, let's say Zoe Williams if she'd wanted, but she chose Janice Turner and what's more, threw a dart in Owen Jones' direction which, judging by his Tweeting today, has got right under his skin. Call me childish but I can forgive her a lot for that. Smile

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 17/07/2021 17:11

@Floisme

Yes I'm sure she could have just had a cosy chat with, let's say Zoe Williams if she'd wanted, but she chose Janice Turner and what's more, threw a dart in Owen Jones' direction which, judging by his Tweeting today, has got right under his skin. Call me childish but I can forgive her a lot for that. Smile
That’s a point actually.
teawamutu · 17/07/2021 17:15

True, Floisme. If she pisses off LOJ I'm prepared to award a few points.

Seriously though, at this stage Jess is still going to be condemned as a TERF by the purity spiral for ever and ever, however much she tries to stay on the fence.

As the philosophers Van Halen observed, might as well jump.

Melroses · 17/07/2021 17:22

@TinselAngel

I'm wondering if she's had a change of heart.

I'll need to see evidence that she now supports trans widows rights rather than optimistic speculation.

It is the way of politicians - give everyone something optimistic to speculate about, then do something else.

The OJ dart has turned out to be enjoyable though.

bellinisurge · 17/07/2021 17:39

"As the philosophers Van Halen observed, might as well jump."
That is one of the best things I have read in yonks.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/07/2021 18:04

judging by his Tweeting today, has got right under his skin.

What did he say?

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 17/07/2021 18:12

He’s very cross & so is Dawn Butler. Eresh, he’s blocked me too but you’ll be able to see his tweets if you log out.

PandorasMailbox · 17/07/2021 20:06

@SuffolkBargeWoman

Why the obsession with refuges? Why should women have to run away?
I ran away because my husband tried to kill me. Is that a good enough excuse for you?
R0wantrees · 17/07/2021 20:16

Jess Phillips MP was part of the Women's and Equalities Committee which produced the Transgender Equality Report (2015–16)
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/390.pdf

There were many very serious issues with this, some of which are identified by Professor Kathleen Stock in her speech at the House of Lords WPUK meeting hosted by Baroness Emma Nicholson (October 2018)

(extract)
"I want to talk about how, in attempting to answer that question, public organisations are being misleadingly advised, sometimes with harmful results.
I take it that the selection of advisors on a particular issue should follow four basic and commonsensical principles:
· All groups affected should be represented
· Advisors should have relevant expertise, and should advise only on areas where they have expertise.
· Advisors shouldn’t have backgrounds which undermine their credibility.
· Advisors should, where possible, appeal to independently verified evidence to back up their views.

For an example where these four principles were not put into practice, I’d like to look at the select committee report from the Transgender Equality inquiry, which came out in January 2016.

Just to remind you all: this inquiry recommends removing any substantive constraints on who may legally change sex, for whatever reason. It also recommends a host of other policies: for instance
· Lowering the age at which one can legally change sex, to 16.
· Rescinding current provision in the Equality Act, to allow trans women to work and receive support in occupational settings like rape crisis centres and domestic violence refuges. (continues)

medium.com/@kathleenstock/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

January 2020 (see screenshot)
twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1213887262414581761

Janice Turner interviews Jess Philips in the Times
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