How is it "gender critical" to impose rigid binary social categories based on sex?

[CuriousPanda]

For most of history, the whole point of feminism was to oppse sex-based segregation and restrictions that were imposed by patriarchal society.

So I don't see how supporting strict gender categories, and simply calling them "sex-based" instead, in any way leans itself to "gender abolition".

One might get impression that "gender" is simply being used to mean trans people existing, and "gender abolition" simply means restricting trans people from being able to transition and use different gender labels. And basically nothing else.

With "sex-based rules and restrictions" being basically just gender roles but trans-proofed.

I was debating counting all the threads which have patiently tried to explain the difference between gender and sex to the OP, but I lost the will to live. My aunty used to say: "none so deaf as those who wont hear".

@Secondbellini

I don’t understand what the purpose of describing some things as social identities is.

Woman is no more or less a social identity than asthmatic, 63 year old, three year old, 4 foot 4 inch tall and so on.

Why does social identity keep getting added to it?

Because OP is gaslighting

You've picked the wrong bunch of people to argue with.
Ask them why they hold those views, not us.

@mollythemeerkat

I was debating counting all the threads which have patiently tried to explain the difference between gender and sex to the OP, but I lost the will to live. My aunty used to say: "none so deaf as those who wont hear".

I don't think OP came here to learn.

Just to twist words.

Sex was around long before gender.

All OP has to do is look at their birth certificate.

Factually a transwoman is male. If a transwoman is in a female space it is no longer single sex

@MistressOfEvilMaleficent

This is hilarious! 😂😂

Define woman;

Adult female human

Define female;

of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

Soooooo, um where are these people hiding their ovaries, where are they bearing offspring, next to their appendix? You aren't Arnold Schwarzenegger and this isn't the film Junior 😂😂😂

Define trans woman; A transgender woman, a woman who was assigned male at birth.

You insist on using dictionary definitions? Guess you gotta call trans women women then.

You keep posting that same link, OP. I'm not sure if I'm just using the site wrong, but I don't actually see any shaming comments. Can you elaborate please?

I must say though, you really are ruining pandas for me 😕

@CuriousPanda , I'm calling myself a woman because that's biologically what I am and sometimes it matters - sport, healthcare, safeguarding.
Attempt to blur it with gender woo woo and you make women less safe, less able to access decent biologically relevant health care and less able to compete in a fair sporting competition.

[quote CuriousPanda]@PhiRhoSigma
If your suggestion is that humans can actually change their biological sex, then you really have gone down the flat-earther rabbit hole.

Yes, they can. Humans can change their biological sex. Sex is merely a sum of physical components, and many of these components can be altered with HRT or surgery.

It's not a "full switch" or anything like that, but as medical technology advances, there are more and more things we can change.[/quote]
At last, some recognition of facts - "it's not a full switch".

Of course it's not. We will NEVER be able to turn females into males, or vice versa. Females grow their future eggs inside their ovaries whilst they themselves are still a foetus. This is pretty much the definition of a female for mammals, and it will not change, ever - there is no reason for any medical scientist to even try!

I'm a medical researcher. I'm not even going to begin listing all the other reasons why humans CANNOT change their biological sex. But I will say, you have a way too 'optimistic' of what medical science can achieve. Or would ever want to achieve.
Surgery and HRT are superficial at best, damaging at worst, and definitely do not alter underlying sex, only mask/remove some aspects of phenotype.

Ofg. If your definition contains the word you're defining as part of the definition then it is not a definition. It is circular and meaningless. Come on, you must know this.

CP your comments are really, really offensive. Even more so as they're deliberately goady - I'm picturing you as a big fat gloating toad getting more aroused with every post.

You're a massive misogynist and I hope that one day you'll look back in shame the way I've seen racists who have seen the light do.

I know you're deploying a well used tactic of keeping posters engaged in ridiculous circular arguments to use up their energy, it's so obvious.

It's just all a bit sad really.

I'll keep hoping for you though.

Well I guess that in abstract terms all words are social constructs

With agreed meanings

Held in dictionaries

So the word woman and associated meaning could be called a social construct

But that's a bit woo woo for me

Snd certainly you don't go around changing the meaning arbitrarily

@mollythemeerkat

I was debating counting all the threads which have patiently tried to explain the difference between gender and sex to the OP, but I lost the will to live. My aunty used to say: "none so deaf as those who wont hear".

And I've been trying many times to explain the difference between sex and gender to you, only for you to persistently conflating them by insisting that "woman" and "man" are sex, when in reality they're socially constructed gender identities. 🙃

‘Does that mean that infertile or sterilized individuals are sexless?’

Why would it mean that? Most females are not capable of reproducing most of the time. The norm for sexual reproduction in mammals is very limited periods when you can reproduce.

It is a bit like saying sleeping or eating or dying aren’t important because we don’t do them constantly.

Human beings aren't clownfish.

I

@midgemagneto

Well I guess that in abstract terms all words are social constructs

With agreed meanings

Held in dictionaries

So the word woman and associated meaning could be called a social construct

But that's a bit woo woo for me

Snd certainly you don't go around changing the meaning arbitrarily

Well, in this case, both trans people and the dictionaries disagree with you, so... Your meaning is not the "agreed" meaning at all.

[quote bellinisurge]@CuriousPanda , I'm calling myself a woman because that's biologically what I am and sometimes it matters - sport, healthcare, safeguarding.
Attempt to blur it with gender woo woo and you make women less safe, less able to access decent biologically relevant health care and less able to compete in a fair sporting competition. [/quote]
They don't care about the sex that is female.

They insist woman is always gender, not sex. So apparently, because curiouspanda says so, GC women aren't women.

As such I guess we aren't cis women.

Perhaps we don't exist at all.

Adult human female

In the uk at least

‘the difference between sex and gender to you, only for you to persistently conflating them by insisting that "woman" and "man" are sex, when in reality they're socially constructed gender identities.’

But if something is socially constructed, it isn’t real. So how can this be the case ‘in reality?’

@Secondbellini

‘Does that mean that infertile or sterilized individuals are sexless?’

Why would it mean that? Most females are not capable of reproducing most of the time. The norm for sexual reproduction in mammals is very limited periods when you can reproduce.

It is a bit like saying sleeping or eating or dying aren’t important because we don’t do them constantly.

If "male" and "female" are defined by the ability to produce gametes, and infertile humans cannot produce gametes, then infertile humans are neither male nor female.

@CuriousPanda
You actively support stigmatizing perceived males over dressing feminine. I don't care what your "generation" was called, the fact remains that now you are nothing short of gender police

Yet another blatant lie. Why?

You’ve repeatedly posted a blurry screen grab of something to do with AliExpress. What on earth has that got to do with anything?

You’ve repeatedly had the argument patiently explained to you but you’re just unwilling to actually engage with it. We are critical of gender ideology. A man can dress however he wants. If the man wants to refer to himself as “she” well ok: there’s a long history of gay men using feminine pronouns (Polari etc)

But “man” and “woman” refer to sex. And nobody can change sex. By all means campaign for third spaces for trans people. But stop being misogynistic and homophobic. It’s not hard!

@Secondbellini

‘the difference between sex and gender to you, only for you to persistently conflating them by insisting that "woman" and "man" are sex, when in reality they're socially constructed gender identities.’

But if something is socially constructed, it isn’t real. So how can this be the case ‘in reality?’

Same way money and laws are a social construct, and thus in reality, they're a social construct?

Infertile humans are male or female. Don't be so silly.

What is so scary about a penis and balls? There's nothing inherently scary about them. I thought the argument would be that the potential behaviours of the people having the penis and balls was what the problem was - and a behaviour associated along sex lines is to do with gender.

Yes. Male violence is a gendered difference. One feminists are critical of and would like to end. However, in the meantime mitigation is necessary.

Reifying assertiveness as inherently masculine and submissiveness as inherently female is the opposite of that.