How is it "gender critical" to impose rigid binary social categories based on sex?

[CuriousPanda]

For most of history, the whole point of feminism was to oppse sex-based segregation and restrictions that were imposed by patriarchal society.

So I don't see how supporting strict gender categories, and simply calling them "sex-based" instead, in any way leans itself to "gender abolition".

One might get impression that "gender" is simply being used to mean trans people existing, and "gender abolition" simply means restricting trans people from being able to transition and use different gender labels. And basically nothing else.

With "sex-based rules and restrictions" being basically just gender roles but trans-proofed.

Expected to be able to unless there is a known accepted medical disability

All humans have 2 eyes
People without 2 eyes are still human

Because most people have communication skills that don't require spoon feeding

No, I did not bring up "crossdressing fetishism", I brought up the fact that your stance quickly updated itself from "I oppose gender, people should dress how they want" to applauding statements of "dresses are not for men!!"

The Chinese seller whose page the man had posted his fetish shots on was the one saying that the dress they had sold to him was for women. So are you suggesting this Chinese seller of unknown sex is a UK GC feminist?

The commenters below were just amused at the situation, where a fetishist has posted his photos on the Chinese sellers shop and the seller didn't like it.

You posted an example of fetishism and are now insisting this means that this is evidence of a contradiction. It seems you know little about fetish and seem to want to be angry that people do.

It's not going to work, you are assuming everyone is as naive as you and are constantly repeating the male = female because "identity" to people because it's what you want to be true.

You can't always get what you want.

‘If "male" and "female" are defined by the ability to produce gametes, and infertile humans cannot produce gametes, then infertile humans are neither male nor female.’

But that isn’t what infertile means. Women are already born with their gametes, but are often still infertile.

@MidsomerMurmurs
We are critical of gender ideology. A man can dress however he wants.

You've had people in this very thread supportive of shaming men as "fetishists" for dressing feminine. You are patently dishonest.

"Gender ideology" is just code for trans people existing. You just oppose the existence of trans people, you have no issue with gender norms otherwise.

@suggestionsplease1

*So when a trans woman claims the label woman, she is asserting firstly that everyone under the label Woman shares some mental or emotional characteristics with her that are not shared with other males, and secondly that the physical body and the social experiences that come tied to it are not relevant to being a woman, which has the implicit result of taking all these things which are hugely significant to the lived experience of half the population, the root cause of female oppression, and dumping them outside the remit of feminism altogether.

And it is reasonable that people may object to being relabled without their consent with an identity they don't have.

A trans woman who says she is as woman, equivalent to me in all meaningful ways, has chosen to label herself with a label I already had. But that was only possible by changing its meaning. So in labelling herself she redefines me either as a Woman in her image not mine, or as not a woman at all.*

@Blibbyblobby I find this a really strange argument. A transwoman's choice to identify as a woman says no more about you than my choice to identify as a woman. I am a woman, natal woman, ciswoman/ female whatever you want to say, but my identity as such says nothing at all about your identity as a woman.

I don't know what you're like but I'm pretty unstereotypically like a woman - I guess a few people might describe me as quite masculine - but the fact that I am like that is no comment on how you are as a woman.

I imagine, but I don't know, that I've had a very different upbringing to you, but again that fact makes no comment on how you experience being a woman.

But a man cannot possibly know what it is to be a woman, any more than I can know, as a woman what it is to be a man, or a cat, or a fish or a bird. We are being asked to accommodate people who are genuinely mentally distressed, which we have agreed to, to an extent, but there comes a point where the human rights of an individual do not trump the human rights of all women. As I asked before, why are these people with gender dysphoria not challenging the gender roles and (in the case of men) not asking men to widen the definition of what it is to be a man and be more tolerant, so they can be comfortable in men’s spaces, instead of pushing themselves into women’s spaces where they are causing huge fear and shut down of important facilities?

@Wildgarlicpesto
the man had posted his fetish shots

What makes them "fetish shots"? The fact that it was a supposed man dressing feminine?

[quote CuriousPanda]@MidsomerMurmurs
We are critical of gender ideology. A man can dress however he wants.

You've had people in this very thread supportive of shaming men as "fetishists" for dressing feminine. You are patently dishonest.

"Gender ideology" is just code for trans people existing. You just oppose the existence of trans people, you have no issue with gender norms otherwise.[/quote]
A French maid outfit is fetishy whether worn by a male or female

only for you to persistently conflating them by insisting that "woman" and "man" are sex, when in reality they're socially constructed gender identities

They aren't though. Horse: male horse - stallion, female horse - mare. Rabbit: male rabbit - buck, female rabbit - doe. Homo sapiens: male human- man, female human - woman.

They are simple terms relating to sex. Not any old sexist nonsense postmodernist gender identity theorists have made up. Hope that helps.

@Yepyes

Basically: The more you insist of "woman" specifically meaning "adult human female", the more we will insist on trans women being female

So.. thought rape?

Someone disagreeing with you is not "thought rape", what an absolutely ridiculous and absurd thing to claim.

You've stopped though short of the definition at " woman". So now you go ok so what's a woman...adult human female...ok what's a female?...bingo you've reached the end.

It's like stopping halfway through a sentence and going. See my point?

No, no I don't.

But a man cannot possibly know what it is to be a woman, any more than I can know, as a woman what it is to be a man, or a cat, or a fish or a bird.

This.

So is lolita wear now mainstream? I mean I see it in public, but lolita is erm...

You've had people in this very thread supportive of shaming men as "fetishists" for dressing feminine. You are patently dishonest.

"Gender ideology" is just code for trans people existing. You just oppose the existence of trans people, you have no issue with gender norms otherwise.

And here is the reveal. This person is accusing every poster here of exactly what they are doing.

No one on this thread has shamed anyone for being a fetishist, or decided that a man is a fetishist for dressing in a "feminine' way. Quote it or retract.

Every single feminist has an issue with perpetuating gender norms. The fact that you assert the opposite, with no basis for that claim, doesn't make it true.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Someone pushing something you don't want on you when you've said no is though.

you are assuming everyone is as naive as you

I doubt this person is particularly naive.

[quote CuriousPanda]@Yepyes
Someone pushing something you don't want on you when you've said no is though.

You are pushing unwanted gendered label of "man" and "woman" on trans women and men respectively.

Stop thought-raping trans people.[/quote]
One is fact the other is fancy

Is Titania McGrath honouring us with her presence?

Why would it mean that? Most females are not capable of reproducing most of the time. The norm for sexual reproduction in mammals is very limited periods when you can reproduce.

I take it Poundshop Sophistry Club has permanently lost its venue.

[quote Yepyes]@BlueberryCheezecake

Someone pushing something you don't want on you when you've said no is though.[/quote]
WTF? No. Someone is allowed to continue to disagree with you even if you don't want them to. That has absolutely nothing to do with sexual consent and the comparison is so absurd as to either be laughable or offensive.

@AssassinatedBeauty
No one on this thread has shamed anyone for being a fetishist, or decided that a man is a fetishist for dressing in a "feminine' way. Quote it or retract.
Plenty of the people in this thread called a perceived male a "crossdressing fetishist" for wearing a dress. I won't retract shit.

Look up the posts made on the last 5 pages by @RedDogsBeg and @Wildgarlicpesto, starting with page 10.

@BlueberryCheezecake

But the panda said they wouldn't stop at disagreement.

Ah when we say man we are not giving a gender label
It's a sex label ( biological reproductive class )
See easily cleared up

Thought-raping trans people?

Somebody's on a wind up.

Oh but if you dare to use the word woman as a gender label for me, I will report you for misgendering

Accurate sex, inaccurate gender

I take into account what people mean before I go around taking offense