Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

[dyslek]

I can see three scenarios.

1. women lose and we end up living in some nightmarish high tec version of ancient Rome, where woman and children is a sub human resource to be exploited in anyway a man wants at an given moment.
2. the mass hysteria quietly dies down and every kind of pretents this was never a thing (and in fact it was only those nasty feminists making a fuss that caused all this misunderstanding in the first place).
3. due to the sheer insanity of gender idology, society slowly starts to listen to women and the horror of the unfairness wakes everyone up to womans humanity and gender stereotypes and finally totally abandoned and we all live happly ever after.

If “cis” is merely descriptive and not offensive, how can it be repurposed into an insult when Panda wants?

Huh. Might be time for a rest, Panda, you’ve had a lot of latitude here, but name calling won’t get you anywhere.

And for those who feel that things will improve when the oldies die out, I’m curious as to what you think might happen when your beliefs are the ones being found wanting by the next generation. I bet you’ll change your tune about wishing death on people who have unfashionable opinions then, you nanas.

I’ll tell you what never goes out of style: an enquiring mind, a willingness to believe in positive intent, treating people who disagree with you with respect, and the understanding that people are entitled to have opinions that differ from yours, and the world will still turn…

In the absence of logical reasoned debate it's always best to resort to temper tantrums and insults. It a winner every time.👍 🐼

Is that another word redefinition? Does bigot now no longer mean 'intolerant of the opinions of others' (sounds familiar) and now means 'person who refuses to do what I say'?

Gosh, it is hard to keep up.

Hundreds and hundreds of posts over multiple threads of women explaining their position to Panda and in the end all we get is variations from "it would be much easier if you just agreed unconditionally with me" to "I'm not going to listen to your opinions because I don't want to, you bigots".

As always, very illuminating to read your responses Panda. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to outline your position as I think it's very helpful.

@Imasoulman

I must have missed some deleted posts, but it sounds like someone was objecting to the descriptive word "transwomen " ?

I don't understand the problem with that, it's news to me !!
I have happily been describing myself as such since " transsexual" was side lined.

However I also notice "sissy" may have been used ??
Now that is offensive!

You will need to ask CuriousPanda why they chose such a vile word

"Sissy/Cissy" porn soaked nonsense.

@Imasoulman

I must have missed some deleted posts, but it sounds like someone was objecting to the descriptive word "transwomen " ?

I don't understand the problem with that, it's news to me !!
I have happily been describing myself as such since " transsexual" was side lined.

However I also notice "sissy" may have been used ??
Now that is offensive!

Unfortunately filthy immoral scum like Panda is simply proof of what women have to go through, and why women on here react harshly to men even male allies. Men like Panda have no moral fibre or decency in their body. So they lash out when they are soundly defeated and lose the argument. It is VINTAGE tra m.o.

treating people who disagree with you with respect, and the understanding that people are entitled to have opinions that differ from yours, and the world will still turn.
You could be quoting my dad! He was a great one for how important it was to have the ability to have a civilised disagreement and at least listen to the other side. Hope I`ve carried that with me.

It was an own goal by Panda alright. I've noticed they all lose control like that when facts get in their way of their brainwashing agenda.

[quote CuriousPanda]@Keepemguessing
There is nothing factually wrong in what I said and I will continue to use 'transwomen'.

You will continue to be a transphobic bigot, I know. And that's why trans people will continue to oppose you.[/quote]
You know you can't control and correct ALL the things you find offensive. You can't change every word in the language that offends you and you can't control what people think. Most people don't really believe that men can become women, but they'll feel sympathy for and be supportive of people who they perceive to be vulnerable. I don't doubt that there are people who believe they are the opposite sex, but they can't force me to believe that too. The sooner you let go of trying to control things you can't (like other people's thoughts) you may find yourself calmer and happier.

Does bigot now no longer mean 'intolerant of the opinions of others' (sounds familiar) and now means 'person who refuses to do what I say'

Yes. Because that is what many people have been led to believe that bigot refers to 'the other side'. It is always very funny to see it deployed by those who simply cannot abide someone disagreeing with them by using evidence and logic to disprove their concocted, and very weak arguments that require people to 'be kind' and pretend to believe.

The denial of the sexes was a reach though. Even if I could choose a gender from the boxes available, I cannot accept sex isn't primary.

@Sophoclesthefox

If “cis” is merely descriptive and not offensive, how can it be repurposed into an insult when Panda wants?

Huh. Might be time for a rest, Panda, you’ve had a lot of latitude here, but name calling won’t get you anywhere.

And for those who feel that things will improve when the oldies die out, I’m curious as to what you think might happen when your beliefs are the ones being found wanting by the next generation. I bet you’ll change your tune about wishing death on people who have unfashionable opinions then, you nanas.

I’ll tell you what never goes out of style: an enquiring mind, a willingness to believe in positive intent, treating people who disagree with you with respect, and the understanding that people are entitled to have opinions that differ from yours, and the world will still turn…

They don't seem to understand that once they've had some real life experience that they may actually be the ones changing their minds on this.

Oh noes! Posters are saying the quiet bits out loud too much these days. They will need to regroup and come back with another mantra and another tactical approach.

This past week we have been told that women who speak out cause male violence, and how hateful we are when we refute it and point out that actually it is the males doing the violent acts who are to blame. We had another person on another thread flounce after telling us off and telling us they were only here to 'educate' us with links to 'activist influencer' video links and not one bit of robust peer reviewed evidence.

We have had a couple of attempts to post threads that have backfired because the posters have not actually checked their facts before they confidently posted them like 'gotchas'.

And this last post from Panda is reminiscent of other posters who are no longer on this board in yelling the quiet bits.

Again, nothing but manipulative and emotive tactics until the extreme prejudice held by these poster about the people who are currently fighting for women's rights comes out loud and clear.

It is unmistakeable.

And once you see it in action, you will never unsee it.

You'd have thought - given Mumsnet yielded to demands to create a fish in a barrel enclave for feminists - they'd have come back with more substantial arguments, instead it's the same old flimsy shite which always ends with toys out of the pram. Tedious.

If the word woman is successfully changed across society so everyone uses it to mean internal gender identity and nothing to do with sex

And it turns out that most women do not identify as women and are therefore not women

And so women in say the UK mostly aren't women and also do not identify as trans

Additionally you don't know if anyone is a woman unless you ask them given that gender presentation and identity are not linked

Then in the end potentially the word woman has become meaningless as it's a small group and who knows who is one.

So in the end isn't what's being pushed leading to to words woman man girl boy falling out of use. And what does that mean for trans people who want to be seen and considered as women?

The logical end points of so much of this seem to be converse to the reason the changes are being promoted

HeddaAga

I am all for seeing new studies and new ideas discussed. I have not seen anything new for so long I wonder if research has simply dried up. All we get is some self-appointed influencer thought leader’s hot new take on an old over done topic.

And cheerleading

Sigh.

I could never be a coal miner as I'm claustrophobic. I'm Non Minery.

Wrong thread!

I missed the deleted posts.

I have got the gist from the responses though.

What I find most enlightening is the lack of answers to fair questions about how loads of things are impacted / how will it work if the desires are met and the words are changed to the preferred meanings in society.

There are huge issues around so many massive major topics that are just ignored or handwaved away

There are huge issues around so many massive major topics that are just ignored or handwaved away

I believe the logic is:

“I am a good person. I think this is ok. So if someone says it’s not ok they must be a bad person. I will think about what they say only with the objective of finding the thing that proves it’s bad. If I can’t find anything I will either point at something else said by people everyone agrees are bad who happen to have something similar once and dismiss it for that reason, or I will claim it’s being said not in good faith but as a dog whistle for some other bad thing that I will define. If I do this, it will not occur to me that the only person who actually thought the bad thing was me. At no point will I entertain the possibility that the person is not a bad person or that their point could be valid and compromise may be necessary”

It's textbook isn't it. They very idea that female people should be allowed to draw their own boundaries and say for themselves who they are triggers incoherent rage.

The 8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

@Blibbyblobby

I am a good person. I think this is ok. So if someone says it’s not ok they must be a bad person.

Very true. I think you're right on the money with this. I think this logic is also what leads TRAs to accept violent, deviant behaviour from individuals who claim trans identity. They've dug themselves into a hole where they have to accept everyone into the fold who claims this identity.

They should bloody well stand up and call out bullshit trans people. Get your boundaries in order ffs!

As Glinner always says: they've created the new Priest Caste.

[quote GromblesofGrimbledon]@Blibbyblobby

I am a good person. I think this is ok. So if someone says it’s not ok they must be a bad person.

Very true. I think you're right on the money with this. I think this logic is also what leads TRAs to accept violent, deviant behaviour from individuals who claim trans identity. They've dug themselves into a hole where they have to accept everyone into the fold who claims this identity.

They should bloody well stand up and call out bullshit trans people. Get your boundaries in order ffs!

As Glinner always says: they've created the new Priest Caste. [/quote]
Lets be clear - LangCleg, late of this parish was the voice calling out the creation of new sacred castes. It's a fundamental part of her bold defense of safeguarding, which panda here won't understand. No Sacred Castes. If the T word enables you to sidestep proper scrutiny, it is a new sacred caste, and therefore vulnerable to expliotation.

Has langcleg gone?

Well that was predictable.