Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

[dyslek]

I can see three scenarios.

1. women lose and we end up living in some nightmarish high tec version of ancient Rome, where woman and children is a sub human resource to be exploited in anyway a man wants at an given moment.
2. the mass hysteria quietly dies down and every kind of pretents this was never a thing (and in fact it was only those nasty feminists making a fuss that caused all this misunderstanding in the first place).
3. due to the sheer insanity of gender idology, society slowly starts to listen to women and the horror of the unfairness wakes everyone up to womans humanity and gender stereotypes and finally totally abandoned and we all live happly ever after.

@CuriousPanda
Let's not play dumb, we both know exactly what the intent is behind you persistently trying to mash "trans women" into a single word

Sigh. You’ve repeatedly written “trans women” as two words and people have politely ignored it but you need to be called out on it and do better. Writing “trans women” is misogynistic. When you’re called out, apologise, listen to women and do better next time.

It’s a micro aggression. It insidiously implies that trans women are women. Transwomen are transwomen. Transwomen is the word you need for male sexed people who are trans. Not women. A seahorse is not a horse. A bluebottle is not a bottle.

Stop being misogynistic please.

So you are basically saying that unless we agree that transwomen are women we are not respecting them?

Respect is all about the words used not what you can do in life ?

Suppose we give you woman . But we sort the mess out, clarifying the law, calling things like England's adult human male/female football team, adult human female toilets

Any better?

Oh and don't all yell that woman isn't mine to give

What I am attempting to show is it's not the word but the meaning that matters

And whilst we have a clear meaning for the word woman today , change it in an undefined way and it's useless and doesn't change the fact that sexes are different snd only one needs smear tests

Sad, but probably true that unless men notice we will likely lose this one Men have already noticed. In opinion surveys, they are part of the demographic answering questions like trans woman without an op in female places with an emphatic 'No'. At the moment they're not asked because they feel women should be the ones speaking out but just look at comments (e.g. in the Times) and you will find a good percentage of men. We are not the only ones who want single sex spaces

Also MtF (Male to Female) transgender was given to me by a MNetter as an acceptable term without using the word woman (I just forget to use it)

Suppose we give you woman . But we sort the mess out, clarifying the law, calling things like England's adult human male/female football team, adult human female toilets

Any better?

Fundamental mistake in this suggestion. Transwomen are already described as female, mother, daughter, girl etc.

There is no way to only give up the word woman.

And that isn't wanted anyway. How can a man get validation as a woman if there's nothing labelled woman for them to take part in? They need women's groups and sports to validate themselves.

The only time they don't want the word woman used is when it's actually about something specific to women, e.g. giving birth, then the words woman and mother must be removed.

I'll give the TRAs one thing, they definitely understand the power of language.

People who identify as trans is my preferred terminology, when I am thinking about it. Then to be more specific prostate people who identify as trans or something similar so we know which sex we are talking about without using “offensive” words like man or woman.

Male(s) who identify as trans.

Female(s) who identify as trans.

The linguistic contortions we are forced into by gender ideologues are just ridiculous but the majority still believe that sex is real and important and I don’t think we’ll get beyond that. We’ll always need to communicate about it. If our current sex based words become warped in meaning and/or taboo I imagine that 5 years from now we’ll be referring to people as cocks and cunts and hopefully there will be measures in place to protect the cunts from the cocks…

Queer theory will fail, words don’t change material reality. Words can reflect and direct the focus of our attention and our values however…

Yup. And it would help us all if this board did not impose additional restrictions by banning useful words.

Mtf transgender is useful, if that gets round the deletion problem I will use it (thx @highame )

@BlueBerrySnek

"Given the existence of detransitioners, that's highly unlikely." *@NonnyMouse1337* The percentage of detransitioners is less than 1%

You are bandying around a statistic that you cannot prove or provide a source for.

On the other hand, this study is quite interesting. Done in 2017, and has taken a long view and it is European based.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580378/

Effects of Medical Interventions on Gender Dysphoria and Body Image: A Follow-Up Study

quite a number of the transitioners seemed to have detransitioned to the point where they stated they were no longer living 'as the opposite sex'? This is a small study but states:

135 natal males (119 living in the female role, 12 in the male role, 4 did not report their current gender role) and 66 natal females (60 living in the male role, 5 in the female role, 1 did not report a current gender role)

So... 8.88% of males and 8.33% of the females (this does not include those who did not answer the question which if the answer was to detransition would make these figures higher). And in Figure 3. 22.2% of those who socially transitioned, detransitioned.

And I point out these 8% figures are for POST medicalised transition.

The very fact that the GIDS has NO data due to complete lack of interest or care on the numbers detransitioners amongst the cohort of young female transitioners since the numbers started to rapidly increase. This is probably a very low rate on this study in comparison to what might be seeing now for female detransition.

So..... please post a peer reviewed study or at least peer reviewed paper with that 'less than 1%' statistic. @BlueBerrySnek

@BlueBerrySnek

At some point I do hope all of you see the absurdity of your opinions but I just want to clarify that I am not in any way trying to force my viewpoints on to you, I am simply trying to explain why you may be wrong and why I believe what I do. Of course you don't have to believe anything I say my intention was not to make you angry it was to educate you. Before I leave I'd like to refer you to a channel on youtube called "Jammidodger" I think he may be able to explain to you better why people believe what they do.

Oh. I see. I was too late.

Well, you know if your intention is to 'educate', from experience the best way to do that is to post evidence based studies, papers and other research.

I am afraid posting 'influencer' opinion shows just how superficial your thinking actually is. That you find that influential to use as an 'education' tool, leaves me thinking that you have a pretty shallow depth of knowledge.

plus ça change

It’s a micro aggression.

It is, by any current definition.

Let's not play dumb, we both know exactly what the intent is behind you persistently trying to mash "trans women" into a single word.

I will only ever use the single word and don't care if you and your fellow travellers don't like it.

The insistence that people use two words is designed to obfuscate the truth. Transwomen are not a subset of women, they're a subset of men.

I'll also point out that transwoman was common usage until the jargon shifted to delineate who was a true believer and who wasn't. Rather like the JWs celebrating Christmas until their leaders decided that Christmas was evil.

You can show allegiance to your cause in many ways, that's entirely up to you. Non believers don't have to use faith language. Cheers.

I don't have a gender though - I just 'am'. I have no religion either and some parts of trans ideology seems like a religion - some believers assign you so you fit in with their views.

Transwomen are not a subset of women, they're a subset of men.

Indeed.

The insistence that people use two words is designed to obfuscate the truth

And assert power, of course.

Although I personally have no issue saying trans woman. A trans woman is a male woman. A woman with male privilege and without the female lived experience. It acknowledges that woman is now a mixed sex class and thereby highlights the need for a new, single sex group inclusive of all females independent of gender.

Because gender, as we know, is not sex, and therefore sex is not gender and can be recognised and spoken about in its own right.

And as we all also know, the female sex has been and still is disadvantaged economically, politically, culturally and socially due to their sex, which is why is it so critical that we can recognise and named ourselves as a group. To deny us that autonomy is abhorrent and regressive.

I'm torn between reporting that post and not doing so to let it stand in all its unpleasantness. The absolute rage at women not doing what they are told and using the proscribed language.

*prescribed

[quote CuriousPanda]@MidsomerMurmurs
You’ve repeatedly written “trans women” as two words and people have politely ignored it but you need to be called out on it and do better. Writing “trans women” is misogynistic.
It’s a micro aggression. It insidiously implies that trans women are women.

@Keepmguessing
I will only ever use the single word and don't care if you and your fellow travellers don't like it.
The insistence that people use two words is designed to obfuscate the truth. Transwomen are not a subset of women, they're a subset of men.

You know what? Fuck off. This kind of blatantly disrespectful garbage is why people just call you transphobic pieces of shit, and treat you like the despicable bigoted filth you are.[/quote]
I actually laughed out loud at that response, CuriousPanda. I hope it's not repeated because it shows you up, not me.

There is nothing factually wrong in what I said and I will continue to use 'transwomen'.

*deleted

@AssassinatedBeauty

I'm torn between reporting that post and not doing so to let it stand in all its unpleasantness. The absolute rage at women not doing what they are told and using the proscribed language.

It's quite beautiful in its own way.

Sunlight.

That's interesting you were told trans women as one word is a micro aggression, that's new to me?
It was on here I was told by GC posters didn't I know not to use it as one word, I should be using two words as its trans women, tut I should know better blah blah.
So I have ever since since finding out and will carry on doing so - guess they didn't tell me it in good faith though, kind of backfired there?