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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Article about WiSpa incident *title edited by MNHQ*

596 replies

CoconutGlaze · 09/07/2021 00:11

www.losangelesblade.com/2021/07/07/alleged-trans-incident-at-upscale-la-spa-may-have-been-staged/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&cf_chl_jschl_tk=5829536c8d2fa7597130f41074d1ff4ddc091aee-1625785481-0-AcMexoncOasqbydtxZLnvW3kf86pvnmRUcmnFRJO3kDQTTPi3WE1pqsYEciE_bUv0_NrLqCEBB07kbXA9xARnFe7KkItHOoJesYdjEC6fhZlzSdZR5jNea3Hx86Run4GtO5awEU3NnavY0JvTjYrnAVNCm8tEidf1SMMw3N5siRBk8qD1VNkFgE5cpMkcjvQeRQOADtTSBAxPmJBCYcnt9-8vGTpjCqttCRHPJpNcOTVZ1yeJUoMKwXTMHx6TYPRXfLtl9iMGeP4hL9uTYPEGTlrpO9oNuwAKavdw2-gxpOKI_xUiq2v9Du5DREcmzRyp0Hbw663FPxWtUH30wzqS_uBK7ghaCwgVJq80Jqm_6IrKuwhmZZ8v63Pz43HNOLM_Z_LDzQaSLaudEQf8hcoUFVdcbQMtr1ZG0MPaesDmdB4iEDbdrdpR_yjmAZ0Pv1v151venXcbcYpUYyEtdcU8_kRH-iv2XYtf7vdtY_vfuu3DyzzvhXUk31-zNSYJlPMkVbHzQkZkuQMw4yQy7XsOSaoMPKRTgsJORo6DtRdu5NMqMu8190zks0sRxJeosg8KWSjnO33FKQXycbDay-9eGQagXI2tsfaurfG3jb2p3SV-f8fzRSwfCOf8C9-TmWrow#Echobox=1625710145

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2021 02:20

These meltdowns are certainly interesting. Not sure Steph got the memo that any old shit one makes up won't fly here unlike many other spaces on the internet.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2021 02:28

Let's hear the words of the woman who kicked all this off.

Brave, clear and true, talking about the violation which she experienced, because we believe women here. Mumsnet was the home of the #believeher campaign. Hope that helps anyone who doesn't quite get that.

twitter.com/msediewyatt/status/1413007992484601864?s=20

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2021 02:29

A reminder:

A MAN indecently exposed himself in a female only spa area. A woman complained with others joining in. MORE MEN turned up to have a pointless fight.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2021 02:32

Who on earth do you think wound him up into such a frenzy? I'm normally polite and engage in good faith but, don't you dare have the audacity to absolve yourself of or at least absolve the GC ideology of responsibility for what happened. The nerve of you is astounding.

This is a spectacular DARVO.

theThreeofWeevils · 10/07/2021 02:40

This is a spectacular DARVO
It is indeed. One to have stuffed and mounted and hung in the bar at The Bluestocking for future generations to wonder at.

Poor men. All these nasty women MAKING them do bad things. Some (those that survive ) even have the brass neck to complain...

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 10/07/2021 02:53

I'm astounded at the sympathy Steph has shown for an allegedly GC (I'm taking her word for it) man who stabbed someone.

I don't understand why she would make excuses for this man, but she is. It's genuinely like listening to the family of a man who murdered his girlfriend, claiming that he was a lovely man and she "wound him up", except I can't understand why Steph's doing it!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2021 02:56

"Women unmoved by attempt to guilt trip them about unrelated male violence on the other side of the world"

Helleofabore · 10/07/2021 03:08

I must admit I was rather unsurprised by the aggressiveness in this post. And for what. Saying to stop blaming the woman who released the video for male violence?

Same old, same old, innit. Aggression.

Of course it's someone's fault

To be very clear. I did not say it was no one’s fault. I said it was not the woman who released the video’s fault. The person’s fault it is, is the one who carried out the violence and threats. No one else’s.

Who on earth do you think wound him up into such a frenzy?

I am sure you will read that later and feel very ashamed. What a misogynistic view. The woman caused the males to be violent? So the males have also been infantalised here too. Like they have no control.

I'm normally polite and engage in good faith but, don't you dare have the audacity to absolve yourself of or at least absolve the GC ideology of responsibility for what happened. The nerve of you is astounding.

I don’t actually have the opinion of you that you engage in good faith. And truly, any person who posts on this board and talks about feminists the way you have tonight ‘GC are responsible for this’, is still not engaging in good faith.

No. People who believe that males should not be exposing their penis to little girls and women have certainly NOT caused this. In fact, THIS incident should never have happened and certainly not twice at the same spa.

Who was the group who lobbied to have that discrimination act voted in? Was it the women you are seeking to blame? NO! I dare say it was a trans lobby group. So, ultimately should we blame them?

I still vote for blaming the violent males for their own actions myself.

The nerve of me? Really? That is somewhat of an over reaction isn’t it? For pointing out that it is misogynistic to blame women for male violence? On a feminist forum?

People (including your own) were stabbed as a result of GC rhetoric.

They were stabbed because of violent males. Next you will be telling us that the group who set of smoke bombs in Grenfell did it as a result of ‘GC rhetoric’. That the kicking and screaming on the windows during the women’s conference was the result of ‘GC rhetoric’. That the death and rape threats women receive, that Joanne Rowling receives, is the result of ‘GC rhetoric’.

This is the same line of thought that allows people to declare themselves ’unsafe’ when they hear something they disagree with.

But, That woman who released the video to the public has sparked discussion and debate. Yes. She certainly has not changed the law. So she had simply raised awareness. If males cannot control themselves, they have the problem.

There are many issues I take with the trans side of the debate but, some of you have gotten into the metaphorical bed with the far right. this is such tired trope. Really it is. The violence directed at women discussing women’s rights is appalling. I keep posting about the people ‘the other side’ is aligned with. Seriously, hard to miss and again just hypocritical.

To say I'm disgusted of SW1 would be understating my feelings. what does this mean?

Awful, wake up because if you think these hoodlums won't be coming for you next then I think you've lived a sheltered life. so…. This is a threat then?

So… I take it if I don’t STFU I will deserve any violence and abuse I get because my ‘GC rhetoric’ made someone do it?

Rather incredible to post on a feminism forum for pointing out that people spreading lies to discredit a woman’s testimony of seeing a semi-erect penis in a female single sex space and for pointing out that she wasn’t responsible for male’s being violent.

Helleofabore · 10/07/2021 03:13

@Ereshkigalangcleg

"Women unmoved by attempt to guilt trip them about unrelated male violence on the other side of the world"
Yes. Quite.
statsgeek1 · 10/07/2021 03:16

This reply has been deleted

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QuinnMovesOn · 10/07/2021 03:32

I fail to understand how a handful of peaceful protesters "incited violence" over this. How about blaming the people who actually are doing the hitting of other people with fists and skateboards?

Helleofabore · 10/07/2021 03:36

People were stabbed, that's without dispute. Far right morons turned up as a result widespread GC rhetoric.

And if they had simply protested, that would have been them deciding to protest for themselves. Like the peaceful women attempted to do.

But what you are saying is: women shut the fuck up because your words tell people that something is wrong with the law and that might cause male’s to lose control. On both extreme view points.

So just shut the fuck up or it is ALL YOUR FAULT!!

No.

Trans people have had to own the prison service mistake with regards to KW. really? Since when? All I have ever seen stated is that White was not trans and that oh! It was the fault of a young system. Like teething issues.

These things don't happen in a vaccuum, you and the right wing thugs you have whipped into a frenzy own this. tell you what, tell me which women’s group invited them and I will write to that group and tell them off. I will get some one prominent to put that group and publicly say it is not on.

If a women’s group organized for them to be there, I would say something. Isn’t it likely they saw preciouschilds call to action and turned up for a fight. And btw preciouschild ain’t GC. (I don’t even call myself GC!)

It's fine to GC, just own the disgusting things that you incite.

Speaking out is NOT inciting. What is disgusting is the attempts to silence women through blaming them for inciting violence through making a complaint.

The deflection and avoidance of responsibility is almost as bad the act itself. and the remonstrations continue …..

I feel for you, I really do, there's just no hope. Take care

Yeah. Right. Thanks.

By the way.

This Woman was not to blame for male’s perpetrating violent acts…. That blame is solely with the male’s doing it.

theThreeofWeevils · 10/07/2021 03:39

the violence they've incited
oh do give over, mate. You're on a losing wicket with that one.

anti trans folk (sorry gender critical)
How about rephrasing that as 'pro rigorous safeguarding'? I mean, it is blindingly obvious looking at this instance alone that when legislation permits a male with bad intention and claiming to be trans into what should be a single-SEX space, boundaries and decency were breached and a young child had all the fun of a grown man's genitals thrust into her line of sight.
Of course, the little hussy should have averted her eyes. According to one fuckwit commentator. So maybe the 'furore' is all the fault of the child, for not keeping her gaze downcast until ripe. But no, she needed a bit of normalisation of male tackle, didn't she? Grooming in plain sight.

So, statsgeek, what's your position on safeguarding?

Helleofabore · 10/07/2021 03:43

@statsgeek1

Flipping heck a thread of anti trans folk (sorry gender critical) trying to distance them selves from the violence they've incited. Even against their own supporters. Colour me shocked.
Please tell us which women’s group organized them to attend? And which woman stood there and led them into fighting the other males…

Also, which male’s best up the pastor? Which group surrounded a lone female protester and even followed her to her car?

Also, preciouschild clearly was part of organizing the counter protest and publicizing it on twitter. Surely, an uninvited mob of violent males can probably read and organize themselves..

Or is it the woman’s fault for opening her mouth in the first place. Oh yeah. That is right.

All you have done statsgeek is once again tell women who disagree with you to shut the fuck up just in case some male decides to get violent somewhere in the world. Nice one.

Helleofabore · 10/07/2021 03:46

Yes statsgeek, weevils asks a good question. Steph answered the question, tbf.

Maybe you can.

Is it acceptable that a naked male expose their penis and get into the spa with a six year old girl or a nine year girl?

That really is the issue right there.

statsgeek1 · 10/07/2021 03:55

@theThreeofWeevils

the violence they've incited oh do give over, mate. You're on a losing wicket with that one.

anti trans folk (sorry gender critical)
How about rephrasing that as 'pro rigorous safeguarding'? I mean, it is blindingly obvious looking at this instance alone that when legislation permits a male with bad intention and claiming to be trans into what should be a single-SEX space, boundaries and decency were breached and a young child had all the fun of a grown man's genitals thrust into her line of sight.
Of course, the little hussy should have averted her eyes. According to one fuckwit commentator. So maybe the 'furore' is all the fault of the child, for not keeping her gaze downcast until ripe. But no, she needed a bit of normalisation of male tackle, didn't she? Grooming in plain sight.

So, statsgeek, what's your position on safeguarding?

Seeing as your as you're asking I''ll start with not letting anti trans bigots (sorry,gender critical people) anywhere within a country mile of trans children.

We can start from there and go on to hoping the court of appeal sends Bell vs the Tavistock and it's questionable experts to to annuls of history.

Other than that we can rest assured that the general acceptance of trans people and how they live their lives sits at around a 70% approval rating in the UK generally.

Sadly Truss and Badenoch will use their power to over rule public opinion for now but, they'll only last so long. Tomorrow's generation appear to value hope over hate and after the Brexit fall out, Generation forgotten and pay it back and the realisation that the Tories really did mess up the Covid response, despite the vaccine I think trans people will be okay in the end. Meanwhile, even though I suspect you may be cross about it, anti trans stuff will be consigned to drawer of things we are really ashamed of.

statsgeek1 · 10/07/2021 04:04

@Helleofabore

Yes statsgeek, weevils asks a good question. Steph answered the question, tbf.

Maybe you can.

Is it acceptable that a naked male expose their penis and get into the spa with a six year old girl or a nine year girl?

That really is the issue right there.

No it is not acceptable for someone to expose their genitals to a child. Are you deranged asking a question like that?

Here in the UK it is subject to the law, generally under the crime of exposure or outraging the public decency.

I think (and I may be wrong) the issue raised by Steph was that the GC crowd used a questionable situation to incite hatred and when violence erupted tried to distance yourselves from the scummy men that follow you. I've never come across a GC man who isn't a creep, I don't understand why you encourage them.

LadyFuHao · 10/07/2021 04:20

You say she is deranged for asking the question and then refer to it as 'a questionable situation'.

Hmm
theThreeofWeevils · 10/07/2021 04:36

the scummy men that follow you
The lot of women throughout history has been to be followed by scummy men, and harassed by them, and assaulted by them, raped by them and blamed by them. So yes, scummy men follow us everyfuckingwhere. And now it is even easier for them to do that in many jurisdictions simply by saying 'I'm a woman'

I wouldn't let anyone who imagines 'trans children ' are a cohort within a country mile or a small ad in th SCMP (some of our stars are the same) of any child either. But the vast majority of kids 'transing' seem to be natal females, so why do you care?

Your DARVO was a good effort, but it ain't going to be the one behind the bar. soz.

statsgeek1 · 10/07/2021 04:39

@LadyFuHao

You say she is deranged for asking the question and then refer to it as 'a questionable situation'.

Hmm

The question and the particular situation aren't joined at the hip. If what you say happened at the Spa happened then, yes, I concede it is relevant to that situation. However, reading some alternative reporting I would not be totally shocked if we were heading for another Ian Huntley is trans debacle. Do you remember that?
statsgeek1 · 10/07/2021 04:47

@theThreeofWeevils

the scummy men that follow you The lot of women throughout history has been to be followed by scummy men, and harassed by them, and assaulted by them, raped by them and blamed by them. So yes, scummy men follow us everyfuckingwhere. And now it is even easier for them to do that in many jurisdictions simply by saying 'I'm a woman'

I wouldn't let anyone who imagines 'trans children ' are a cohort within a country mile or a small ad in th SCMP (some of our stars are the same) of any child either. But the vast majority of kids 'transing' seem to be natal females, so why do you care?

Your DARVO was a good effort, but it ain't going to be the one behind the bar. soz.

The trouble is, man wise, the person most likely to attack you, sexually or otherwise, is your boyfriend, your husband, your Dad, your brother, your priest, your youth worker or your teacher. Normally within the confines of your own home or classroom.

Some trans people are a danger, there's no doubt about that and they should rightly be dealt with as the law allows.

The vast majority of kids 99.92% of our 12.5 million under 18's don't 'trans'at all. Even then, only about 20% of the 0.08% referred to gender services go beyond assessment.

Meanwhile, there are around 90.000 children in the UK are in the care system. There's you thinking you're saving the world hitting on that tiny minority of trans kids. If you were driven by compassion and understanding instead of intolerance and bigotry I wouldn't have had to spend 90 second touch typing this gumf. For shame as my Gran used to say.

PrincessNutella · 10/07/2021 04:49

The "alternative reporting" is 100 percent bullshit, anonymously sourced innuendos written by an anonymous author. There's no there there.

statsgeek1 · 10/07/2021 04:57

@PrincessNutella

The "alternative reporting" is 100 percent bullshit, anonymously sourced innuendos written by an anonymous author. There's no there there.
It may well be but, until I hear the LAPD say 'we've investigated this and it happened and this is why we think that', then I am going to have my doubts. Had the complainant not been so closely linked to a man who has form for this sort of false flag stuff to support his religious madness I would be a bit more inclined to believe it.

Of course, if it has happened and they know who it is then I support the police in bringing them to justice. However, GC encouraged far right monsters are not something I can agree with.Especially when they start stabbing their own people. Wierd.

Getting into the metaphorical bed with that lot is not going to end well. If you think for a minute that once they've finished with trans people that they'll leave women alone, I'm afraid i think you are mistaken.

PrincessNutella · 10/07/2021 05:02

Steph--. "I'm surprised that people think pre-op trans women as a whole would want to expose the body they hate to others. I'm not saying there aren't had trans people but i 'd be astonished if we're a common trait."

I'm surprised you think that what you are calling pre-op trans women hate their bodies. According to the Advocate, many transpeople do not experience dysphoria, but instead experience gender euphoria. Assuming that trans women experience gender dysphoria is considered eurocentric and transphobic. www.advocate.com/commentary/2019/1/18/do-you-need-gender-dysphoria-be-transtransphobic to assume that trans people have gender dysphoria?

theThreeofWeevils · 10/07/2021 05:05

man wise, the person most likely to attack you, sexually or otherwise, is your boyfriend, your husband, your Dad, your brother, your priest, your youth worker or your teacher. Normally within the confines of your own home or classroom
Yes, because those people have access. Is letting intact biological males into previously female sex-segregated spaces going to reduce the number of 'sexual or otherwise' attacks?

I really can't see what the number of minors currently in the care system has specifically to do with this thread, except that they are peculiarly vulnerable to predators and that robust safeguarding is fundamental to their chances of thriving.

Swipe left for the next trending thread