Francine Niyonsaba has qualified for Tokyo Olympics

[andyoldlabour]

Francine Niyonsaba has qualified for Tokyo Olympics, in the women's 5000m and 10000m. Francine has the same 46 XY DSD as Caster Semenya and due to the very strange IOC/WA rules is only barred from events between 400m and 1 mile.
At Francine's very first attempt at 10000m they beat the Burundi national record by 20s. Francine has run just 2 5000m races, but beat the Burundi national record twice.

runningmagazine.ca/sections/runs-races/francine-niyonsaba-runs-10000m-olympic-standard-at-ethiopian-trials/

At Francine’s very first attempt at 10000m they beat the Burundi national record by 20s. Francine has just run the 2 5000m races, but beat the Burundi national record twice.

Funny that, it’s almost as if they had a ‘natural’ advantage over every woman in Burundi who has ever trained and trained before running that race..

I don't understand the IOC/WA rationale at all,could anyone explain?

@TrainedByCats

At Francine’s very first attempt at 10000m they beat the Burundi national record by 20s. Francine has just run the 2 5000m races, but beat the Burundi national record twice.

Funny that, it’s almost as if they had a ‘natural’ advantage over every woman in Burundi who has ever trained and trained before running that race..

Hmmmmnnnn

This one is going to be ignored too I am afraid. Just like the Rio event where top 3 were all males with DSDs. Until the OIC and WA face the reality of the science, nothing will get better for the females competing against males.

And every single newspaper article and commentator will fail to explain why Niyonsaba can’t run in the middle distance events, which adds to the problem because it creates confusion within the watching public.
It’s top level obfuscation .

I'm confused. Why can't they run the middle distance events?

Angel the IOC had evidence from an informal data collection of runners, which evidenced XY advantage over XX, and impact of t suppression. The runners were middle distance.

There was public attention to middle distance when no XX people medalled in the 2016 olympics 800m. All DSD XY people who can process t for athletic advantage.

World Athletics’ DSD athlete ruling gave her three options: compete in races shorter than 400m, jump up to events longer than the mile or take medications to lower her testosterone levels. She picked the long route

I'm surprised a woman wouldn't want to lower her testosterone levels...

Oh I know that one.

They cannot compete in the middle races because it it a sweet-spot where high testosterone is so impactful that even rigorous training and technique cannot enable biological women to compete.

That is why all 800m “women” in the last Olympics had internal testicles. I think they are trying to get at least one person who is biological female in the top three.

Ground, by the time the athlete is heading to the olympics, it’s not all about the athlete’s preference. There is a whole organisation behind them. Trainer, sponsors, national pride.
Caster Semenya’s family have backed Caster as the great hope for the family.?

@PennineSpring

And every single newspaper article and commentator will fail to explain why Niyonsaba can’t run in the middle distance events, which adds to the problem because it creates confusion within the watching public. It’s top level obfuscation .

It really is. I don’t know what’s worse- this appalling fudge by the IOC of allowing certain distances when the advantage is across all distances and indeed all sports; or the craven collusion of the media in pretending that this is discrimination against women with a natural variation, and wafting around insinuations that people objecting are being a bit racist.

I'm not on twitter, but just searching by athlete name doesn't bring up a single post that mentions the "XY, has testicles" angle. It's all calling out misogyny and racism and saying that this never happens to white athletes.

People seem to think that black female athletes have naturally higher testosterone levels than white female athletes, and are comparing it to Michael Phelps having bigger feet, or Paula Radcliffe having a higher VO2max.

Is there an embargo on newspapers reporting this using correct words and clear explanations? It's really odd that no-one seems to mention the absolutely massive elephant in the room.

I don’t understand what the governing bodies are doing. Either individuals with 46 XY DSD conditions need to be allowed to compete as women or not. It’s a ridiculously complicated issue and I am not qualified to provide an answer beyond saying that altering bodies is not the answer. Restricting some events and not others is not the the answer. These people should either count as women in sport or they should not.

I have great sympathy for the individuals caught up in this debate. We should always remember that for all the people around them trying to profit or gain from the athlete’s skill, it all starts with a little girl with a dream and drive. If that spark wasn’t there none of this debate would exist.

I really don't think it does start with 'a little girl with a dream and drive'.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest it actually starts with ruthless scouts who specifically target little boys with this condition who grew up in poverty so their DSD wasn't picked up at birth.

There was an interesting feature in the Telegraph that had evidence that some of these 'talent scouts' are the exact same unscrupulous coaches who gave East European girls testosterone injections.

If there's a loophole, there will be some men who will exploit it.

I also really wish there could be some clear discussion of how this is happening. Is this purely a matter of economics or are there populations prone to particular conditions? It’s impossible to do without being accused of racism, when in fact, if there is a correlation with population just like certain groups have a genetic predisposition to certain types of cancer, I think that makes is strong evidence that the governing bodies should simply accept that these are natural variations of women in sport. If the condition is linked to economics and access to health care, then sporting bodies could campaign to resolve this issue in so many ways and improve the lives of many people in the process.

I really think they should recategorise everything as XX and XY

This is not happening by chance. Coaches are deliberately exploiting this loophole. On a previous thread Barraker posted this 2014 study:

Serum Androgen Levels in Elite Female Athletes

Prevalence of hyperandrogenic 46 XY DSD in our athletic population is approximately 7 per 1000, which is 140 times higher than expected in the general population.

Because, in this study, screening for SRY was not performed (we looked only for women that were hyperandrogenic), it is possible that the actual prevalence of 46 XY was even higher.
Moreover, our results concur with previous report (34) and the DSD (carrying the SRY gene) prevalence observed during the 1992 (7.5 per 1000) and the 1996 (2.67 per 1000) Olympic Games (28)

46 XY DSD is not a "natural variation of women"! It is a disorder of sexual development of men.

Am I right in thinking that in the UK and other countries with improved healthcare, these conditions are picked up in early childhood? Therefore a child with this condition would never be mistaken for a girl, would be bought up male and therefore unable to compete in women's events?

But surely if the ruling allows Caster et al to compete, then surely an athlete from any country with a similar condition would be able to compete in women's athletics?

What's the difference between the condition being picked up in early childhood and not?

And actually, would this open the gates for more unscrupulous families in wealthier countries to refuse a child treatment so that they could compete in women's athletics with all the advantages of a male body?

Thank you everyone who answered my question. As usual, it's a fudge by the people in charge.

Last week we heard about two athletes from Niger, who had "elevated testosterone levels" (No mention of the 46 XY DSD - very strange that) .
They were given the choice between lowering their T levels or changing to the 200m event.
They were on the same club team and had the same coach.
It is almost as if coaches are going looking for these athletes?

Hang on, have I got this right. The men who controle sport did a test to see if people with high testostrone have an advantage, so they tested middle distance runners, and found they did.
So they baned men competing with women...in only middle distance running?
Have I got that right?

Basically after the 800m received a restriction (won silver in 2016), moved to long distance. Awesome.

@andyoldlabour

Last week we heard about two athletes from Niger, who had "elevated testosterone levels" (No mention of the 46 XY DSD - very strange that) . They were given the choice between lowering their T levels or changing to the 200m event. They were on the same club team and had the same coach. It is almost as if coaches are going looking for these athletes?

Almost, right?