Helen Webberley

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Looks like Helem Webberley's substantive case has finally been listed for 26th July 2021

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

Agree with everyone - that's a great post charleyparley . I see there's no rebuttal of these appalling facts from yet another new poster on here.

Good piece on how Science Based Medicine has lost its way on this issue (giving Lupron to children):

Their model has “kindness” built in, so they cannot allow themselves to consider anything else, because to do so is de-facto “unkind”. Trying to persuade them otherwise is unkind. Pointing out what they have got wrong is unkind. Questioning is unkind. Forcing children to go through puberty is unkind. Leaving children with functioning sexual organs and reproductive systems longer than is absolutely necessary is unkind. Anything but acceptance of the one true path is unkind.

I think on some level they know that this is another medical scandal unfolding, no different from every other time young lesbians have been institutionalised, lobotomised, sterilised. Perhaps that is why there is such an aggressive need for everybody to go along with it - because if all the world is complicit, they don’t have to feel personal responsibility for when the bubble eventually bursts.

voidifremoved.substack.com/p/irreversible-reputational-damage

I know this is off track, but I keep coming back to it. For GIRLS, what was the advantage of puberty blockers EVER supposed to be? I can understand boys not wanting the changes that testosterone brings, but testosterone has such clear effects that surely girls could go through female puberty, then take testosterone later if they still felt they needed to? Surely puberty blockers have the "wrong" effect on girls who want to be boys, in that they stunt growth, so that girls who particularly want to maximise height so that they can present as men, end up even shorter than they would have been?

"2013 lecture in which Norman Spack explains how he treated 12 UK childen including Susie Green's child and claims credit for 'successfully' restricting Jackie's height through use of cross-sex hormones as well as puberty blocking drugs. Spack desribes that Susie Green purchased hormones for her son in Canada and criticises NHS Tavistock GIDS for not prescribing puberty blockers to all children who request them.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tqil7Audws"

They are also 'Successfully restricting" the height of GNC girls who want to be tall.

Sorry for the derail, but I think it's outrageous that this was ever thought to be ok.

I think they're supposed to stop suicide.

People seem to have forgotten though that that claim was originally based on boys feeling suicidal because they were going through the wrong puberty, having largely irreversible androgenisation.

Obviously the effects of puberty on girls are far less irreversible. As a genderologist would say "if you don't want breasts later, you can always remove them".

Keira Bell's case was partly won on this point. The judges kept trying to pin them down on what the puberty blockers were supposed to achieve, and kept getting different inconsistent answers.

Another possible answer is "it's a hormone-disrupting drug we can give to under-18s, as it hasn't (yet) been barred, unlike cross-sex hormones". It's a regulation-avoiding stand-in for cross-sex hormones.

[quote R0wantrees]Danial Webb provides information about the three practising doctors employed by Gender GP,

"Roxana Matescu has been employed by GenderGP since 2019. According to Gender GP's own website, "Dr Mateescu [sic] leads the team on prescribing and is responsiblefor the clinical leadership in collaboration with the medical and support staff.

They are so please with Dr Matescu, they even made her a certificate

Dr Yasmeen El Rakhawy, from Egypt, "takes responsibility for the representation of clinical matters within the team and provides professional advice to management". Whatever that means. She got a certificate too!

Finally, Chloe Rogers is a FY1 doctor with a licence to practise, who is employed as a research assistant by GenderGP. She has yet to receive her certificate though."

twitter.com/DanialWebb/status/1415334634406223877[/quote]
Ah that would explain why I couldn't find Dr Al Rakhawy on the GMC register - the blurb makes it sound like she's practicing in the UK, but she's not registered with the GMC.

Yes NecessaryScene I think that's it.

@StellaAndCrow

I know this is off track, but I keep coming back to it. For GIRLS, what was the advantage of puberty blockers EVER supposed to be? I can understand boys not wanting the changes that testosterone brings, but testosterone has such clear effects that surely girls could go through female puberty, then take testosterone later if they still felt they needed to? Surely puberty blockers have the "wrong" effect on girls who want to be boys, in that they stunt growth, so that girls who particularly want to maximise height so that they can present as men, end up even shorter than they would have been?

Yes! This never seems to be well thought through, especially in the ideological urging for giving puberty blockers early. As ever, so much of it is based on the treatment of transgender males and not girls and women at all.

As ever, so much of it is based on the treatment of transgender males and not girls and women at all.

And GenderGP's advisors and counsellors are also males.

@StellaAndCrow

I know this is off track, but I keep coming back to it. For GIRLS, what was the advantage of puberty blockers EVER supposed to be? I can understand boys not wanting the changes that testosterone brings, but testosterone has such clear effects that surely girls could go through female puberty, then take testosterone later if they still felt they needed to? Surely puberty blockers have the "wrong" effect on girls who want to be boys, in that they stunt growth, so that girls who particularly want to maximise height so that they can present as men, end up even shorter than they would have been?

Do they reduce hip width and allow greater stature? I’m guessing they may also reduce periods? (I haven’t looked for the answers, because I’m bone idle and only have one hand free to type.)

I just wanted to post to thank everyone for their contributions to the thread. I have been really short of time so have been relying on MN for a précis of the HW trial and you are all amazing.

I worried there may be a derail with a PP but ironically it summarises so much the basic issue at play - one group of people willing to provide detailed explanations, explaining and referencing research both medical and social etc (especial thanks R0 here!) and another group not actually engaging with any science or safeguarding concerns or answering any questions - just trotting out clichès and trying to close down discussions with general allegations of hatred.

PP who mentioned secondary embarrassment on this posters's part are correct. The irony is they demonstrate perfectly exactly why the HW case exists. The irony of being accused of hatred - the people who actually want to support, protect and safeguard young people and who are insisting on accountability from the adults in positions of power who have not been doing this so far.

No one here hates trans children. We are trying to protect them and safeguard them. They are children. We are adults.

My under 18 DCs like tattoos and want their own! I (and my older DC) love tattoos and we have lots. There is however no way on earth I would be taking my 12 yr old DC abroad to have a tattoo because they really want to and threaten to kill them themselves if they don't have one. Do I hate tattooed people? Clearly not. I love my DC and I want to protect them when they are children because I am an adult and that's my role. And that should be the role of every adult involved in their lives - to safeguard and protect them from harm. Shutting that conversation down with oh you just hate tattooed people is similar to what is occurring here - except the stakes are much much higher with puberty blockers than tattoos as they aren't just superficial marks upon the surface of your skin, like tattoos which can also be covered up by skilled artists if you regret them when you are older - and I'm sure huge amounts of people find themselves in this situation as they age, especially given the explosion in popularity of tattoos in recent years!

Anyone pushing for the right of adults to be able to tattoo prepubescent children just because children really want them and don't feel comfortable in their bodies when they aren't tattooed would be laughed out of court (for want of a better expression).

And yet here we are, in the situation where HW is facing scrutiny for actions already carried out while everyone else turned a blind eye or actively supported her, until the issue was forced.

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

Transwomen are men by sex. Absolute fact.

As to the first half of your post, we are in the UK. You are not living in reality. I'm sorry for you. Perhaps see the Dr?

Nefelibata33 you might want to start your own thread by copying and posting your post. This thread is about Helen Webberley's tribunal and to answer here would be a derail. I'm happy to discuss it because I don;t have much else going on today, but not on this thread, which needs to be kept on topic, which your post is not.

Sorry, I had hoped to get some intelligent replies, but obviously no one wants to discuss it. At least you didn't abuse me, so thanks for that.

Chickenyhead, I really don't need to see a doctor, I think from my post, you can see I'm really with it. Perhaps you're not? Just sayin.

FloralBunting thanks for being reasonable. Do you think I should just start a new topic? I thought I made some good points. How do I start a new thread? I'm not sure what I would call it. Feminists against bullsh*t maybe?

If you want to talk about Helen Webberley fine, but I think I'm fighting a losing battle on this website. But give me your views, if you want

I think probably an ungoady title might serve you well. Just Copy and paste your post and start a new thread in the Sex and Gender Discussion topic. I told you why I wasn't going to respond, because I don't want this thread derailed. Everyone is free to post on this website within the guidelines, and people will usually respond. If you want a reasonable discussion, framing it in goady terms will usually provoke a snarky response, and I think I've been perfectly polite to you. I suspect others may take a different view, so you can decide how to act.

Sorry, I had hoped to get some intelligent replies, but obviously no one wants to discuss it

Did you not read CharleyParley’s post?

The topic here is Helen Webberley, nefelibata. It’s very common web etiquette to ask people to stay on topic, and if you want people to,be polite to you, the best thing to do is to be polite yourself. Please do start your general thread for a general discussion, if you don’t want to discuss the Webberley issue, or you don’t know anything about it.

Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO.

You seem to be under the misconception that ‘trans’ is now an objectively definable category and that inclusive policies (“use the facility where you feel most comfortable”) would somehow stop men from entering any space.

You have accused GC women of not wanting to safeguard their children. You have been rude and aggressive and failed to provide evidence. Yet now, you attempt to claim the higher ground??

I am not a believer in conspiracy theories that the UK operates in the same way as the US. it doesn't.

This is just more obtuse bullying.

@Nefelibata33

Sorry, I had hoped to get some intelligent replies, but obviously no one wants to discuss it. At least you didn't abuse me, so thanks for that.

Chickenyhead, I really don't need to see a doctor, I think from my post, you can see I'm really with it. Perhaps you're not? Just sayin.

FloralBunting thanks for being reasonable. Do you think I should just start a new topic? I thought I made some good points. How do I start a new thread? I'm not sure what I would call it. Feminists against bullsh*t maybe?

If you want to talk about Helen Webberley fine, but I think I'm fighting a losing battle on this website. But give me your views, if you want

I don't know if you're familiar with how social media and discussions work? If you're not don't worry, but people (original posters, sometimes abbreviated to OP) start threads (these are discussions people post - type - on). They add a title so that others know what the discussion is about.

For example this one is about H Webberly. So if you want to chat about another topic, or one that is broader than just HW, you'll need to start your own thread.

Hope that helps

Hi, what is goady? Have I missed something? But thanks for being generally reasonable, I get so much sh*t off people. Seems like this place is just an incredible hate factory. I just wanted to appeal to people to have heart, that's all

Seriously everyone let's try and keep this one on topic. Weeks more of this tribunal to go, and Nefelibata has been invited to start another thread.

Okay everyone, you seem to think that I have strayed off topic, and it seems to have upset you. I am gonna copy and paste my message elsewhere.

Despite our differences in opinions, have a nice night X