Female athletes and testosterone

[Queuingroundtheblock]

Just musing with a friend and we wondered - is the 10 nanomole testosterone limit for Olympic trans women athletes only for tw? Could women take testosterone to boost performance? I mean, obviously it's a really bad idea but just wondered if it's now allowed?

The regulations don’t apply to female athletes with hyperandrogenism as these women would still have testosterone levels below 5 nmol/l.

It's not that these women are unaffected by the regulations because their T level is lower than 5nmol, it's that they aren't affected because they are female and this regulation only applies to males. Specifically 46XY DSDs where there is testes and an androgen response. A female (XX) athlete's testosterone could be higher than 5 and they'd not be regulated, because they are female (in reality, it's extremely unlikely a female athlete would ever have naturally occurring testosterone higher than 5 anyway).

Yes you’re right - I should have just said the regulations don’t apply to female athletes with hyperandrogenism.

@Helleofabore

And what evidence do you ‘choose’ to follow that makes you believe otherwise Cyclingmum50?

And do you have a vested interest in allowing a male to participate in female sporting categories? If so, perhaps you would have access to the studies that we don’t.

So please do link them up as there is a huge readership of these threads and people are here to see the evidence.

Curious. What’s your vested interest Cyclingmum?

I am still baffled at my understanding that transwomen has a higher testosterone level than the women who were doped during the Eastern European doping years. Wow!!

Can you imagine if a male who actually was good started to identify as a woman?

Out of interest, has anyone come across a male who realised that they were a transwoman after actually being successful as a male? Apart from Caitlin Jenner who suggests that transwomen shouldn’t participate in women’s sports?

BatmansBat

Yes, there was Scottish Tour de France rider Philippa York, who competed at a very high standard in the 1980's, winning the Mountains in the TdF in 1984 and the Mountains in the Giro in 1987, plus various stage races.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_York

The following article details the state sponsored doping taking place in Eastern Bloc countries in the 60's and 70's. Some of the women athletes were taking twice the dose of testosterone that the men were on and had been doping since mid teens.

academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/43/7/1262/5640958

I think to be clear they were doped by their trainers etc and this was supported by the state.

If they knew, there wasn't anything they could do about it.

NiceGerbil

I know, it was a horrible situation for them, particularly the after effects, totally ruined their lives.

[quote andyoldlabour]BatmansBat

Yes, there was Scottish Tour de France rider Philippa York, who competed at a very high standard in the 1980's, winning the Mountains in the TdF in 1984 and the Mountains in the Giro in 1987, plus various stage races.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_York[/quote]
Will the renamed York admit to being 'King of the Mountains' as that was won by Robert Millar? No women in those races, hence only 'King'.

Well, at least competing against their own sex, they weren't a motorbike in a bicycle race. It was like for like.

Miller/York AFAIK is keeping their head down and has been out of the public eye pretty much since transitioning.

I've not heard if they have s view on the sports issues.

There are plenty more vocal people to focus on IMO

Oh York has a view. The last time it was posted about on a different thread, all the posts were deleted. Let’s try again.

road.cc/content/news/269035-idea-transgender-people-are-going-take-over-womens-sport-absolutely-ridiculous

Oh that's such a shame

Transitioning changes the way you think
York is menopausal
It's harder for a transwoman than a (c*s) woman

I have always loved the tour and am old enough to remember York competing.

York pops up on ITV4 cycling coverage as a talking head regularly.

It is a shame because York is taken seriously in sport due to their outstanding career.

I saw on Twitter that they’re part of British Cycling’s new Diversity Panel as was a chap from Stonewall. An appointment like that should be a really positive statement of inclusivity for a sporting organisation but I worry it’s actually a death knell for sex based women’s cycling.

OMG, the gall of that. York (or Millar as then) threw their toys out of the pram and was peeved when they lost a stage in the Vuelta because the Spaniards worked together. They won it fair and square body wise, blokes against blokes. However, York (or Millar as was) was so peeved and such a sore loser that they said they'd never return to Spain and it was called the 'stolen vuelta'.

And now they think a figurative motorbike is fair in a race against a bicycle. What a bleed*n' hypocrite.

@Ekofisk

York pops up on ITV4 cycling coverage as a talking head regularly.

Haven't seen on the tour, I feel like I haven't seen them since transition.

Watch some of the other cycling as well. Will keep an eye out.

How is York menopausal?

Because words mean what you want them to mean

@NiceGerbil

Because words mean what you want them to mean

🙄

This athlete who has declared that they have always suffered from gender dysphoria , was obviously able to ignore it , as they have admitted taking performance enhancing extra testosterone during their competitive career.

The guys who are the best climbers are usually so wiry. I see York was a wiry one too. Pogacar was not just the Maillot jaune yesterday, but also the 'meilleur jeune'. He was wearing the white jersey (best under 21, I think) as well as the yellow jersey. A wiry looking kid.

Wout Poels got to wear the polka dot. Sam Bennett not in it this year!

Yes, Le Tour is on in my house too. And no women are competing in it, irrespective of what any of these guys might claim in a few years time. They'd whinge over any unfairness for themselves, so can bog off if they try to say it is ok for women to have males unfairly competing against them.
As they say, that would be a motorcycle in a bicycle race.

This athlete who has declared that they have always suffered from gender dysphoria , was obviously able to ignore it , as they have admitted taking performance enhancing extra testosterone during their competitive career.

Sorry, somehow managed to send the above post twice?

Well. I look forward to the research that is being used to prove that males who lower their testosterone eliminate the benefits of a male purberty so they can compete with females.

I am sure it is NOT going to be Harper’s 8 person self reported study and it must be a very convincing one. So, I will wait for cyclingmum’s links. ….

It's not about anything scientific.

It never was.

The IOC had a starting point of we want to let transwomen compete with women. What rules shall we use?

I mean it's obvious.

The upper limit of testosterone is within normal for men.

The concept that testosterone is the only difference is obvious nonsense.

The fact that for those with DSDS the testosterone allowed is half that of transwomen. Why???!!! Logically it should be the same as for transwomen, obviously. What is the rationale for this?

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