Female athletes and testosterone

[Queuingroundtheblock]

Just musing with a friend and we wondered - is the 10 nanomole testosterone limit for Olympic trans women athletes only for tw? Could women take testosterone to boost performance? I mean, obviously it's a really bad idea but just wondered if it's now allowed?

GonadTheGaul

Back in 2018 when McKinnon "won" their first Masters title, I posted a thread about it on a cycling forum. I expected/hoped that most people would see how ridiculous the situation was. However, a sizeable minority of people pointed to McKinnon's qualifications in philosophy - The "Norms of assertion" rubbish. I stated that they were not at all qualified in biology, anatomy, physiology or for that matter any relevant science which could provide a credible report.
When they asked for my qualifications, I stated that my DW was qualified in biology and biotechnology, knows about DNA/RNA and knows fullwell that no human has ever changed sex.
I am convinced that British Cycling may have been influenced by such "research" if my phonecall to them was anything to go by.

If British Cycling are stupid enough to have taken papers like McKinnon's or Harper 2015 at face value then they really deserve to be ridiculed across the globe. They presumably have actual sports scientists and medial doctors who work for/with them who could tell them some facts about the human body and its biology, unless they only employ or work with quacks.

We seem to be seeing a trend of denying reality within institutions as well as within individuals. They will take on board what they want to believe, regardless of its implausibility or the lack of relevant qualifications or experience of the person promoting it. They will ignore what they don't want to believe, regardless of how good the evidence is or the relevant expertise of the person with that evidence.

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago about an article in the BMJ by a non-binary doctor in the US, who was suggesting that there was no need to record sex in medicine anymore and that we should be recording gender and what organs a patient had. The rapid responses to the article rightly called this approach dangerous and ridiculous. The fact that we now have medical professionals, who have to know a lot about the biology of the human body in order to qualify and do the job, suggesting this is very worrying. This doctor clearly wants to deny their own biology, which is their own choice, but to call for medicine as a whole to start denying biology is very worrying. The bizarre editorial stance of some biomedicine journals in insisting on 'gender' instead of 'sex' (I can't remember which journal it was off the top of my head) is also part of it. These institutions and bodies are seemingly being guided by unscientific ideology instead of facts and evidence.

The problem for all these individuals and institutions is that biology, like gravity, doesn't give a stuff if you believe in it or not, it will still act on you in the same way.

Gonad the Gaul: If British Cycling are stupid enough to have taken papers like McKinnon's or Harper 2015 at face value then they really deserve to be ridiculed across the globe. They presumably have actual sports scientists and medial doctors who work for/with them who could tell them some facts about the human body and its biology, unless they only employ or work with quacks.

Since the best known British Cycling actual medical doctor is Richard Freeman, who claimed under oath to be unaware that testosterone could be used as a performance enhancing drug and had a habit of mislaying laptops containing confidential patient details, I wouldn't have a great deal of confidence. Sports medicine at professional level appears to require a very different ethos from that required of most doctors.

It was rather sobering to watch the women's Olympic road race today and think, "This could be the last time all the participants in this event are female."

Since the best known British Cycling actual medical doctor is Richard Freeman, who claimed under oath to be unaware that testosterone could be used as a performance enhancing drug and had a habit of mislaying laptops containing confidential patient details

what a surprise!

KohlaParasanda

"It was rather sobering to watch the women's Olympic road race today and think, "This could be the last time all the participants in this event are female."

In theory it could have happened. Let me introduce you to Natalie Van Gogh, who at the age of 46, still competes for a UCI European pro team in Holland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_van_Gogh

I hadn't come across Natalie van Gogh before and have to declare myself slightly gobsmacked that there's been at least one transwoman displacing women from team contracts and podium places in women's professional road cycling for at least twelve years.

46! FFS

And meanwhile the women's Olympic road race was won by a magnificent young woman who couldn't get a place on a professional team.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9842717/Olympic-stars-bumpy-road-BMX-glory-Gold-medal-winning-hero-Beth-Shriever.html

Another example of British Cycling’s fair and inclusive environment for female athletes…oh silly me, of course not.

PennineSpring

"The victory caps a rollercoaster journey for Shriever, who left the GB setup to go solo in 2019 and aimed to raise £50,000 via crowdfunding to enable her to even compete after Team GB decided only to fund male riders."

Why does that fail to shock me, given the way British Cycling has treated other female riders in the past.

Since the best known British Cycling actual medical doctor is Richard Freeman, who claimed under oath to be unaware that testosterone could be used as a performance enhancing drug and had a habit of mislaying laptops containing confidential patient details

I see Freeman has been struck off. I knew British Cycling were sexist. They appear to be stupid as well. I hope Brian Facer as the new CEO can sort this out, he's certainly got plenty of issues to deal with by the look of it.