Employee using pronouns. Help!

[OfNobody]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has just taken on a new recruit and he's just realised that she uses pronouns after her name on her email signature.

He'd love for her not to do that because he's GC himself (and has a very traditional client base) but can he ask her to stop? Is that in itself discrimination?

Would love to advise him but generally, all the work issues I see around this run in the opposite direction (employers asking employees for pronouns).

Any experience of this, or any insight into how he can politely request that she drop the pronouns without ending up on the front cover of The Guardian?

From what he said, she doesn't sound like a massive raging handmaiden. She's just fresh out of uni and obviously thinks this is the way to go.

I may add ‘potentially peri menopausal’ in mine by way if a warning then. That is far more useful than “la di dah, refer to me as her when talking about me, as I know you all do...”

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I may add ‘potentially peri menopausal’ in mine by way if a warning then. That is far more useful than “la di dah, refer to me as her when talking about me, as I know you all do...”

Now that's a great idea.

Although I think my colleagues all know by now.

Seeing pronouns in email signatures makes me really concerned that the person is not inclusive of other viewpoints. That they would discriminate against you for your belief/understanding of biology and the impact of gender identity theory on women's rights. I wouldn't expect to see the political party they pay subs to or whether they were remain/leave in their email signature.

EightiesRobot, I think most of the folk scattering unsought pronouns via email were too young to vote in the referendum. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@NewlyGranny in this case maybe but most of the senior management in my work place have them and we are constantly told we should also include 'our' pronouns. I am fully aware that my concerns about Equality Impact Assessments on the protected characteristic of sex etc are not welcome and I need to keep my views to myself although the message is also that we should feel able to bring our whole selves to work?! It makes me feel excluded within the workplace in the same way as if everyone was to put their other political views in their email signature.

@EightiesRobot - genuine question, if you refused to play ball and put something like ‘he/she’, what would happen?

Spontaneous combustion or something I expect.

I'm not going to do that. So far the majority of staff ignore all the entreaties to add our pronouns - we can't be forced to publish personal information.

No, I wasn’t suggesting you would - I just wondered what your company (applies equally to other companies who insist on this) would do if someone refused to play ball. I wonder if anyone has done it if they were forced to add pronouns.

Got a message today that our company are actively encouraging this bollocks

There is a form we need to complete for pronouns to be added with a list of approved pronouns to choose from. I think there is also an open option but they would check it. I've seen social media bios with she/they I guess for people who want other people to switch how they talk about them?

Stating your pronouns out of choice just marks you out as a sexist homophobe.

@Hathertonhariden

Stating your pronouns out of choice just marks you out as a sexist homophobe.

How do you get to that conclusion lol

“How do you get to that conclusion lol”

Among other things some of the comments on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4286302-LGBT-parliamentary-Discussion-1st-July

Refusal to recognise sexual orientation comes pretty high up the list.

@Quaggars
How do you not?

[quote Cattenberg]@ArabellaScott, one of my colleagues has a swirly, purple signature that looks very nice and is identifiable at a glance. I like it. I suppose it’s OK, unless she’s emailing someone with visual or literacy issues. Also, it might not be very clear on printed or scanned documents.

However, the colleagues who are determined to shoehorn their BA (Oxen) or MSc (LSE) into their signatures, should know that other people do snigger at this. As bragging goes, its pretty transparent and it doesn’t make them more approachable to customers.[/quote]
Well, it probably depends. Some professions you kind of need to state your qualifications as a matter of course.

Some professions a swirly purple sig might be fine. Depends how the company/org is wrt branding and professionalism, really.

[quote Minezatea]@Quaggars
How do you not?[/quote]
Well, that cleared that up, great answer lol

Well, that cleared that up, great answer lol

Again I think gender ideology is homophobic because it doesn’t recognise same sex attraction.

She very well could be harming the business.

I once turned down a client for a huge tender because my contact there had his pronouns in his email signature.

My main objection to pronouns in email signatures is the potential to increase sexism. My understanding is that when you draw someone's attention to the fact you are female then they tend to take you less seriously, and assume you know less.

Of people are saying that sex doesn’t matter - how on earth should gender matter? And why are they pushing it like it’s the be all and end all of human evolution?

If management suggests adding pronouns, it's safe to ignore it. If reminders are issued, keep promising, being awfully busy and forgetting.

If push comes to shove, I would submit "I/me/mine" and need lots of explanation as to why that was a problem!

Conversation at work today. One member of a large group meeting looked quite androgynous and my colleagues were speculating with each other afterwards as to whether they were male identifying as female. It never occurred to them that they were just a butch female, which is what they turned out to be. Isn't it going backwards, that a woman cant have short hair and present in an androgynous way without it being insinuated that she actually a male now? I mention this because there was discussion of pronouns, perhaps we should add them. These people, I have no doubt, are well-intentioned, but simply haven't thought very deeply about this and just want to do what they've been dictated is the right thing. If they try to push it, though, I'll have to object and say something.

I think, as an act of one-upmanship against the woke girls displaying she/her, I would claim to be non-binary and use 'they/them'. It more closely represents how I feel about my innate gendered soul ie. I don't have one, and it would be entertaining to see how the management would dance around me and the woke girls would have their noses put out of joint because I'd be out-woking them.

Some people have identified that mandating pronouns in emails can force people uncomfortable with their sex and/or gender to 'out' themselves.

If they are optional then people can make their own choices. Everyone else can make their own judgements of the use of pronouns.

I can see a small benefit for someone who is non stereotypes conforming may choose to make it clear that they are male/female, and it may make some people feel more comfortable.

I personally wouldn't provide pronouns on emails as it implies I believe and support gender stereotypes and the boxes associated with gender. I'll woman any which way that I want thanks 😊