Employee using pronouns. Help!

[OfNobody]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has just taken on a new recruit and he's just realised that she uses pronouns after her name on her email signature.

He'd love for her not to do that because he's GC himself (and has a very traditional client base) but can he ask her to stop? Is that in itself discrimination?

Would love to advise him but generally, all the work issues I see around this run in the opposite direction (employers asking employees for pronouns).

Any experience of this, or any insight into how he can politely request that she drop the pronouns without ending up on the front cover of The Guardian?

From what he said, she doesn't sound like a massive raging handmaiden. She's just fresh out of uni and obviously thinks this is the way to go.

It doesn’t affect you because presumably you identify as either trans or cis

I'm not trans, and I don't necessarily identify as cis (using the word cis as you did too, for clarity and know people don't like it on here)
I just am.
Born female, and identify as female.
Which makes me it by default.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I don’t think it’s suitable for a work auto signature. Perhaps if you are self employed and it reflects the image you want to present to clients.

'Reach for the stars' in comic sans?

It does not affect me, however much you try to tell me that it does

Presumably because you believe in gender identity ideology.

People who find gender ideology sexist and regressive do mind.

Similarly Dominic Cummings probably wouldn’t mind take back control sign offs but James O’Brien would.

I’m fairly certain a Christian would be offended if I put in my email signature that I worship Satan

I've just asked this question of a Christian - his response was 'I wouldn't be offended - I'd feel sorry for them.'

@Quaggars

It doesn’t affect you because presumably you identify as either trans or cis

I'm not trans, and I don't necessarily identify as cis (using the word cis as you did too, for clarity and know people don't like it on here)
I just am.
Born female, and identify as female.
Which makes me it by default.

Apologies, I’ll rephrase. Presumably you recognise some commonality with trans women that you don’t feel with trans men or other males.

@Arbadacarba

I’m fairly certain a Christian would be offended if I put in my email signature that I worship Satan

I've just asked this question of a Christian - his response was 'I wouldn't be offended - I'd feel sorry for them.'

Actually having said that someone sticking their pronouns on would annoy (just for the display of visible wokeness rather than any gender critical stance) I might feel sorry for them.

This would not be in a Christian sense but in a clearly this person has no personality nor anything interesting about them way.

I am pretty sure that there are some religious beliefs that are unsuitable for work signatures. “Abortion is murder”? “Homosexuality is a sin”?

Arabella, how about “the sky is not the limit if you reach for the stars”? In pink Bimbo Ballpoint font?

@Arbadacarba

I’m fairly certain a Christian would be offended if I put in my email signature that I worship Satan

I've just asked this question of a Christian - his response was 'I wouldn't be offended - I'd feel sorry for them.'

Nevertheless it would still be stupid to put that in a work email signature and I think could be grounds for the start of disciplinary procedures because lots of people would be offended (or just think the person was an idiot, which wouldn’t reflect well on the company).

@Beamur

I think if there is a corporate style then everyone should use that. She might ask why the pronouns are not included though. Your friend might want to think about how they would answer that.

If I’m the owner and I was mandating a corporate email signature style and a new recruit asked why pronouns weren’t included I’d just reply this is the style and it isn’t up for debate

@Arbadacarba

I’m fairly certain a Christian would be offended if I put in my email signature that I worship Satan

I've just asked this question of a Christian - his response was 'I wouldn't be offended - I'd feel sorry for them.'

I'm not a Christian but Christians on the whole don't tend towards being offended.

I'm not gender critical.

I would however assume anyone doing this in a business e-mail is a virtue signalling prat and I would take my business elsewhere.

I'm confused by this stance. Could you elaborate on your position on why you wouldn't consider yourself gender critical but you roll your eyes at pronouns?

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I think all new starts should have someone (office manager or administrator or whoever) show them the house style for email signatures to ensure consistency and a professional look. No need to go into the politics of it, I wouldn't have thought.

This. If this is her first job, she's never really encountered 'house style'. In some jobs my signature was name/job title/extension number, others was name/job title/department. I'd suggest she was introduced to it as part of the normal admin of the job (which it is).

I'm not a Christian but Christians on the whole don't tend towards being offended

No

They are usually in the whole ‘they know not what they do’ mindset and into forgiving and all that

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm not gender critical.

I would however assume anyone doing this in a business e-mail is a virtue signalling prat and I would take my business elsewhere.

I'm confused by this stance. Could you elaborate on your position on why you wouldn't consider yourself gender critical but you roll your eyes at pronouns?

I'm not sure what's so difficult about that stance. I'm coming from the same stance as I would assume the likes of Douglas Murray, Rod Liddle or Julia Hartley-Brewer do.

No one has yet made the point that a large majority of people are ok with being called she/her or he/him without having to announce it to the world. If someone asked me my preferred pronoun I would be massively offended, but that probably makes me a transphobe.

It makes it easier for others to follow suit if they are GNC or non binary if they see others doing it. Or she has a slightly ambiguous name. Or a deep voice. I worked with a woman I had never met with a unisex name, we only ever used email or IM - it was quite a while before I found out she was female if she had her pronouns listed I would have known straight away how to refer to her when referring to her in her absence.
@StMarysKettle and would it have made any difference to how you interacted? If it didn't then why have pronouns? If it did then you are showing bias based on a person's sex.

@Arbadacarba

any right thinking person would be horrified at that

The example you've used would be illegal as it would (rightly) fall foul of anti-discrimination legislation.

'Right thinking' in the context of gender-ideology is not defined in the same way. Rather, there are opposing viewpoints. 'Right thinking' doesn't mean 'people who agree with me' - as I'm sure you know.

There are opposing views about racism as I'm sure you know. Gender ideology is sexist. The issue is not is it illegal but should it be.

@Arbadacarba

I’m fairly certain a Christian would be offended if I put in my email signature that I worship Satan

I've just asked this question of a Christian - his response was 'I wouldn't be offended - I'd feel sorry for them.'

Then why all the homophibia?

Outhere I know you said this midway in the thread, but I just want to applaud you for this lovely alliteration. Made my day.

"...brightly coloured badges of bullshit"

No one has yet made the point that a large majority of people are ok with being called she/her or he/him without having to announce it to the world. If someone asked me my preferred pronoun I would be massively offended

Why though?
I'm genuinely not meaning to be goady.
When first new to this topic on here I was more "OMFG, can you not tell I'm a woman?!" and take offence.
Now though, from reading both sides over the years, I can see why pronouns are important.
Not for me, but for others.
Why should I deny the right for trans people to be seen too, whether a trans woman or a trans man?
(Not aimed at you in particular, just generally thinking out loud)

Sometimes, names can be ambiguous though, especially if they aren't part of the community/culture/country that you are used to, and sometimes people get frustrated at being addressed incorrectly - I am female, a woman, have a female name etc bit I still got emails and letters addressed to Mr xxx which really annoyed me.

I hate the whole pronoun business, but I wouldn't stop someone from adding them, as long as they don't pressure me to do so.

@OfNobody

So she is writing her name the then in brackets adding like this

Anna smith ( she/her)

Like that?

I'm not sure what's so difficult about that stance. I'm coming from the same stance as I would assume the likes of Douglas Murray, Rod Liddle or Julia Hartley-Brewer do.

Ah ok, thanks. I would call that gender critical as an umbrella term but I understand why you don't.

I have mine on my Instagram because I know my ex stalks me and it kills him that mine are actually my real pronouns. It’s not always an inclusive thing. Mines my bit of revenge for the hell he put me through. If he’s gonna look it’s gonna hurt.