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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Son has a girlfriend. Except...

124 replies

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 15:44

When my 15 yo son tells me he's going to see his mate Ethan (name changed for privacy reasons) for a few hours, my response initially was very different to what my response would be if he was going to his mate Jenny's house because it soon becomes apparent that Ethan is not just a mate. I'm a sensitive mum to sexuality issues and we have a conversation about that, one of many we've had over the years. DS is open minded, just as all my kids are, but he's never shown interest in blokes, and I offered him the chance to chat.
Eventually, after much confusion (would probably make an amusing Outnumbered sketch, tbh) it becomes clear that Ethan isn't male, and is in fact trans, but my god it was hard to get to this information because of all the chicanery around language and identification.

Obviously, I have no problem with him being gay, bi or het, and I don't mind him having a girl or boyfriend. But there are significant differences to the advice around certain behaviour with a female or a male, and it was one of the most frustrating parent/child conversations ever, and all the 'inclusive' language did was make communication nearly impossible.

How are you supposed to clearly get across that, "yes, Peter, you and Ethan both identify as male, but no, that doesn't mean that safe sex isn't important. No, you're not in a gay relationship with Ethan, and yes, it's perfectly possible to get Ethan pregnant, because Ethan is, in fact, female, and you are, in fact male. No, Ethan isn't 'male too, maybe the kind of male that can be pregnant if they choose to be' and contraception is relevant here, not just diseases, because you are the opposite sex to each other."

Inclusive, my arse. He's an intelligent boy, very black and white thinker, and a while ago was veering down the really angry internet dude route, but then he fell in with some people who are very into self diagnosing all manner of psychiatric disorders and he's gone compleyely the other way.

I know he'll move on, like I say, 15. But how on earth are you supposed to cut through the reams of 'inclusive' language to make sure he's behaving responsibly? (and yes, obviously I talked about the age of consent, but given that he thinks having a girlfriend with short hair who binds her breasts makes him bi/gay(his term), I think that's the tip of a very confusing iceberg)

OP posts:
PicsInRed · 30/06/2021 15:51

I would give him some condoms and make abundantly clear that you won't be providing childcare or paying any child support for him - he can hold whatever philosophical beliefs he wants, but you won't be bankrolling them. Perhaps a little cold reality will drive it home.

I also wouldn't permit sleepovers which could result in pregnancy.

CharlieParley · 30/06/2021 15:51

Crikey. I'm far too direct for any of that. Well done for getting there in the end.

(I'm under strict orders from my oldest children to keep all sexual intercourse related talks with my youngest to just the necessary information, no additional information thank you very much and absolutely no talking about sex being fun being something that might apply to me and their dad Hmm. I have a tendency to be very frank with my children. Generally not appreciated.)

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/06/2021 15:53

There's a specific forum for parents who might have some experience of your circumstances and I wonder if they'd be able to discuss perspectives and strategies?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_parents

PleasantBirthday · 30/06/2021 15:57

Is there any chance you could speak to Ethan's parents about the nature of the relationship as you see it and discussions they may need to have to keep their own child safe in this context?

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 16:03

Yeah, I think my concern is to make sure there's some sensible communication happening. I've already had to insist he doesn't just disappear to their house for hours after school with just a quick text notification. All the other kids know they can have friends/girl/boyfriends round here too, but he hasn't as yet which diew make me suspicious. His lesbian sister has her girlfriend round often, and my eldest is in her twenties with a boyfriend. There's an odd veneer of secrecy around the whole thing, tbh, which is a bit baffling to me.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 30/06/2021 16:05

OddLookingYoni

Well done in getting to the truth. Because it will matter, of course it matters, to the decisions he makes. Particularly if he labels himself as gay, but is in fact, not.

Maggiesfarm · 30/06/2021 16:06

If Ethan is a friend, what is the problem? You haven't said they are sexually involved.

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 16:08

My OP says it became obvious Ethan isn't just a mate. HTH.

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titchy · 30/06/2021 16:10

You say 'look son. I have no desire whatsoever to label either you or Ethan, or to label your relationship as a straight, gay or bi one. Why you youngsters are so keen on labels is beyond me but there you go. What I am concerned about is Ethan getting pregnant and the risk to both of you of STIs. So use a fucking condom.'

Tinysalmonswimminginastream · 30/06/2021 16:12

Does he really not understand that he could female pregnant if they didn't use contraception?! Because if so, that is really worrying. Confused

Theunamedcat · 30/06/2021 16:14

@titchy

You say 'look son. I have no desire whatsoever to label either you or Ethan, or to label your relationship as a straight, gay or bi one. Why you youngsters are so keen on labels is beyond me but there you go. What I am concerned about is Ethan getting pregnant and the risk to both of you of STIs. So use a fucking condom.'
This would be me no messing about straight to the point
MOTU · 30/06/2021 16:15

@titchy

You say 'look son. I have no desire whatsoever to label either you or Ethan, or to label your relationship as a straight, gay or bi one. Why you youngsters are so keen on labels is beyond me but there you go. What I am concerned about is Ethan getting pregnant and the risk to both of you of STIs. So use a fucking condom.'
bang on -do this
Wanttocry · 30/06/2021 16:18

Are you saying that your son actually did not know that his partner could get pregnant, because he is thinking transman = male = not able to get pregnant?

huuuuunnnndderrricks · 30/06/2021 16:19

I'm confused , is he saying he is gay and can't get Ethan pregnant?

JoodyBlue · 30/06/2021 16:20

I am also direct. If I don't understand I ask until I do. I would be clear in the situation that the girl can get pregnant and talk about the responsibility of that. If sex is anywhere near probable kids are old enough to talk about pregnancy. Sorry to be blunt but we have a responsibility to the next generation of grandchildren to respect their right to a mother and father. I can't pussy foot around anymore. Not criticising you OP at all. But I am amazed at how many parents go along, don't question, or are complicit in untruths. Young people need the truth that sex is real.

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 16:20

@titchy

You say 'look son. I have no desire whatsoever to label either you or Ethan, or to label your relationship as a straight, gay or bi one. Why you youngsters are so keen on labels is beyond me but there you go. What I am concerned about is Ethan getting pregnant and the risk to both of you of STIs. So use a fucking condom.'
Tbf, that is eventually what it boiled down to. But if I hadn't pressed, I'd have had no idea that Ethan was female, so that's what made it quite the marathon trial conversation. And yes, he does understand that a male gets a female pregnant. But Ethan is a male (this was repeatedly emphazised because to give any ground on this was really bad, apparently).

I'm tired.

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ArabellaScott · 30/06/2021 16:28

No wonder, OP. I would find such nonsense tiring, too. Ethan isn't male if Ethan is able to be impregnated. I would emphasise that it isn't always a matter of choice - one way or the other - and that accidents can and do happen, all the time.

DobbyTheHouseElk · 30/06/2021 16:34

If Ethan isn’t bio male and in fact bio female. Then obviously he can get pregnant if they have a sexual relationship in a m/f way. But if they are both gay men does this mean they might have sexual relationships in a different way that would mean Ethan can’t get pregnant? Is that what Peter is saying?

2021DNA · 30/06/2021 16:35

You must have told him that if he has vaginal intercourse with a trans boy he could get him pregnant?

cheeseisnice · 30/06/2021 16:37

@DobbyTheHouseElk

If Ethan isn’t bio male and in fact bio female. Then obviously he can get pregnant if they have a sexual relationship in a m/f way. But if they are both gay men does this mean they might have sexual relationships in a different way that would mean Ethan can’t get pregnant? Is that what Peter is saying?
This was my immediate thought too. Maybe Peter is skirting round the issue because he doesn't want to come straight out and tell his mum that he's only having anal sex.
Mumoftwoinprimary · 30/06/2021 16:43

“If you put your (gay) penis in his (manly) vagina then he may get (manly) pregnant and then you two will be daddies together!”

Or how about

“If you two are genuinely gay then you need to use the hole that gay men use!”

Oh dear. My kids are going to hate me when they are teenagers!

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 16:45

Uncovered penises near vaginas can make a vagina owner pregnant, whether or not said penis is visiting said vagina directly. I mean, yes, given that I initially thought Ethan was a boy, we chatted openly about specific activities. That's what's so frustrating about this. Always been able to have frank, open conversations with all of them. It's the 'innovative' use of language which has made this particular conversation such a headache.

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Leafstamp · 30/06/2021 16:45

It might help to clarify language with your DS. Male and female are the two sexes. Ethan is female and always will be.

Even most trans people and their supporters know they are on a dodgy ground to assert that someone can actually change sex.

Good luck OP.

LST · 30/06/2021 16:51

Does he mean that he is not going to have sex in the conventional m/f way therefore he doesn't think there is a risk of pregnancy?

Well done op. You seem like you are handling it brilliantly. My DC are too young for this yet and I must say.. I aren't looking forward to it when/if it arrives

SleepingStandingUp · 30/06/2021 16:53

If he's adamant Ethan can't get pregnant I'd assume they're only intending on having anal sex.

As for gay / bi / het I'd stick to "we don't need labels because you're free to love whomever you want"

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