Son has a girlfriend. Except...

[OddLookingYoni]

When my 15 yo son tells me he's going to see his mate Ethan (name changed for privacy reasons) for a few hours, my response initially was very different to what my response would be if he was going to his mate Jenny's house because it soon becomes apparent that Ethan is not just a mate. I'm a sensitive mum to sexuality issues and we have a conversation about that, one of many we've had over the years. DS is open minded, just as all my kids are, but he's never shown interest in blokes, and I offered him the chance to chat.
Eventually, after much confusion (would probably make an amusing Outnumbered sketch, tbh) it becomes clear that Ethan isn't male, and is in fact trans, but my god it was hard to get to this information because of all the chicanery around language and identification.

Obviously, I have no problem with him being gay, bi or het, and I don't mind him having a girl or boyfriend. But there are significant differences to the advice around certain behaviour with a female or a male, and it was one of the most frustrating parent/child conversations ever, and all the 'inclusive' language did was make communication nearly impossible.

How are you supposed to clearly get across that, "yes, Peter, you and Ethan both identify as male, but no, that doesn't mean that safe sex isn't important. No, you're not in a gay relationship with Ethan, and yes, it's perfectly possible to get Ethan pregnant, because Ethan is, in fact, female, and you are, in fact male. No, Ethan isn't 'male too, maybe the kind of male that can be pregnant if they choose to be' and contraception is relevant here, not just diseases, because you are the opposite sex to each other."

Inclusive, my arse. He's an intelligent boy, very black and white thinker, and a while ago was veering down the really angry internet dude route, but then he fell in with some people who are very into self diagnosing all manner of psychiatric disorders and he's gone compleyely the other way.

I know he'll move on, like I say, 15. But how on earth are you supposed to cut through the reams of 'inclusive' language to make sure he's behaving responsibly? (and yes, obviously I talked about the age of consent, but given that he thinks having a girlfriend with short hair who binds her breasts makes him bi/gay(his term), I think that's the tip of a very confusing iceberg)

You sound like an excellent mum OP. He’s lucky to have you in his corner.

@LazyHorizon

You sound like an excellent mum OP. He’s lucky to have you in his corner.

I second that!

Thirded.

Agree! Also so impressed you twigged friend was female if I was given a male name I'd have not thought beyond gay version of safe sex chat

Perhaps you could just support him in his relationship and offer him some sensible advice about safe sex practices whilst at the same time refraining from any hasty judgements and simply respecting Ethan's understanding of himself. I'm sure we'd all rather 15 year old kids weren't having sex but, reality would suggest otherwise.

Many trans people and those in relationships with trans people end up being estranged from their families due to intolerance and a lack of acceptance. I'm sure that you are far too accepting to let that happen but, I think it's always a real risk when different views of the world collide.

I haven't RTFT (only the first page) so apologies if duplicating an earlier point, but with regard to your son's sexuality - it's his business if he's gay, regardless of Ethan's trans status. Unless you seriously think your fifteen-year-old son is solely attracted to what is or isn't in Ethan's underwear (something I'm sure none of us want to be thinking about at all, because both these kids are fifteen), rather than anything else about him. o_O

Regarding safe sex, I'd go back a step from the PIV conversation and just say he should always be using a condom, honestly, until or unless he's been in a long-term committed relationship with the person for several months or more and the couple have had a discussion about stopping using them together.

RTFT etc.

He's not gay. I am. I have no truck or patience with the suggestion that genitals are irrelevant to sexual orientation, so gtf with that shit. He might be bi, but there's no evidence of that as yet.

Having now met and seen the pair of them together, I'm actually quite comfortable this is actually a strong male/female friendship based on shared interests, which is lovely, but the usual boundary rules for our house are in place like no closed doors when in bedrooms etc.

But please, anyone else who wants to rock up and patronize me with gender identity talking points, enjoy the side eye you get for not bothering to read the thread.

good on ya, op.

there are some right weirdos posting on this thread now.

I’m loving your work on this thread, op!

@MrsWooster

I’m loving your work on this thread, op!

Seconded

I'd go back a step from the PIV conversation and just say he should always be using a condom, honestly, until or unless he's been in a long-term committed relationship with the person for several months or more and the couple have had a discussion about stopping using them together.

Wtf am I reading? Do you honestly think it is ok for young teenagers having sex to not use a condom every time when one is female? Do you fully expect a teenager to be on the pill and to remember to take it properly?

And do you think teenagers reliably know when they have a mild STI and are getting tested very regularly or would get themselves tested so they can stop using condoms.

I am hoping you are speaking about adults when you indicate that it is ok after a few months and a talk to stop using condoms all together.

And OP. It does sound like you have navigated this well and that you have covered all the bases.

@2021DNA

You must have told him that if he has vaginal intercourse with a trans boy he could get him pregnant?

That's actually a good way of putting it. It's impossible to quibble with.

❤️ awesome mum post x

Well done OP you handled this really well considering the so called 'inclusive' language you have had to abide by. In the future your son is going to have to face a lot of people who don't follow his beliefs and you are a great parent for preparing him for that.

@Helleofabore i think I recognise that sanctimonious tone and way of writing. At least I hope I do. The less people cheerleading the g word and erasure of boundaries around young people the better
.

Op glad I stayed on this thread just for your nonsense burns.

He's not gay- I am
Priceless.

Agh that should be no nonsense.

And if the next thing that poster says is sex is fun I definitely know them!

Wtf am I reading? Do you honestly think it is ok for young teenagers having sex to not use a condom every time when one is female?

Uh - did you read the part where I said "he should always be using a condom"? I even bolded 'always', although it's a bit hard to see with the font. Honestly, I'm not in favour of him having sex at all at 15, but we have to handle the world we live in, not the world we wish we lived in.

I am hoping you are speaking about adults when you indicate that it is ok after a few months and a talk to stop using condoms all together.

Yes. Duh. Sheesh. What a sidetrack.

PS. No, you don't know who I am.

snekkes

Did you notice that I posted your whole sentence?

It also included until or unless he's been in a long-term committed relationship with the person for several months or more and the couple have had a discussion about stopping using them together.

Hence, my comment.

Uh - did you read the part where I said "he should always be using a condom"? I even bolded 'always', although it's a bit hard to see with the font. Honestly, I'm not in favour of him having sex at all at 15, but we have to handle the world we live in, not the world we wish we lived in.

Yes, but a bolded 'always' is then negated with until or unless he's been in a long-term committed relationship with the person for several months or more and the couple have had a discussion about stopping using them together.

So, to be clear, which part of the sentence did you not mean?

I am hoping you are speaking about adults when you indicate that it is ok after a few months and a talk to stop using condoms all together.

Yes. Duh. Sheesh. What a sidetrack.

No....I was just reading your actual post. You knew this young man was 15 yet you still worded your post with:

until or unless he's been in a long-term committed relationship with the person for several months or more and the couple have had a discussion about stopping using them together.

It was not a 'sidetrack' so much as that I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and I thought I should check. Your reaction though is quite unusual considering I was only responding to your words.

Which you now imply mean something else, or were not part of the original post.

PS. No, you don't know who I am.

And nowhere did I imply that I did? Perhaps you are answering someone else?

Yeah, a few other people implied they did, so that part was to them, a general 'you'. It's fun how pedantic one has to be here! :)

Grown-ups can have conversations about whether they want to stop using protection, after a few months together, or when they feel so inclined. Fifteen-year-olds should, if they're having sex at all, always use a condom. We good?

*And/or when they feel so inclined, I suppose. I mean, it's really down the grown-ups involved if they want their 'protection or no?' conversation to be those three words the first time they get to it - none of our business to tell consenting adults otherwise.

Kids, if they're having sex anyway: protection, no matter what. Be safe, be aware. Hopefully have a good relationship with mum and/or dad in case they ever need to discuss anything.

Consenting adults: do what you want, nobody else's business.

@snekkes

Yeah, a few other people implied they did, so that part was to them, a general 'you'. It's fun how pedantic one has to be here! :)

Grown-ups can have conversations about whether they want to stop using protection, after a few months together, or when they feel so inclined. Fifteen-year-olds should, if they're having sex at all, always use a condom. We good?

It's fun how pedantic one has to be here!

I agree. I spend a great deal of time having to define the group of people I am referring to all the time. Because I have been told so often that males are included in the female sex category.

Grown-ups can have conversations about whether they want to stop using protection, after a few months together, or when they feel so inclined. Fifteen-year-olds should, if they're having sex at all, always use a condom. We good?

And that was all you needed to say.