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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Son has a girlfriend. Except...

124 replies

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 15:44

When my 15 yo son tells me he's going to see his mate Ethan (name changed for privacy reasons) for a few hours, my response initially was very different to what my response would be if he was going to his mate Jenny's house because it soon becomes apparent that Ethan is not just a mate. I'm a sensitive mum to sexuality issues and we have a conversation about that, one of many we've had over the years. DS is open minded, just as all my kids are, but he's never shown interest in blokes, and I offered him the chance to chat.
Eventually, after much confusion (would probably make an amusing Outnumbered sketch, tbh) it becomes clear that Ethan isn't male, and is in fact trans, but my god it was hard to get to this information because of all the chicanery around language and identification.

Obviously, I have no problem with him being gay, bi or het, and I don't mind him having a girl or boyfriend. But there are significant differences to the advice around certain behaviour with a female or a male, and it was one of the most frustrating parent/child conversations ever, and all the 'inclusive' language did was make communication nearly impossible.

How are you supposed to clearly get across that, "yes, Peter, you and Ethan both identify as male, but no, that doesn't mean that safe sex isn't important. No, you're not in a gay relationship with Ethan, and yes, it's perfectly possible to get Ethan pregnant, because Ethan is, in fact, female, and you are, in fact male. No, Ethan isn't 'male too, maybe the kind of male that can be pregnant if they choose to be' and contraception is relevant here, not just diseases, because you are the opposite sex to each other."

Inclusive, my arse. He's an intelligent boy, very black and white thinker, and a while ago was veering down the really angry internet dude route, but then he fell in with some people who are very into self diagnosing all manner of psychiatric disorders and he's gone compleyely the other way.

I know he'll move on, like I say, 15. But how on earth are you supposed to cut through the reams of 'inclusive' language to make sure he's behaving responsibly? (and yes, obviously I talked about the age of consent, but given that he thinks having a girlfriend with short hair who binds her breasts makes him bi/gay(his term), I think that's the tip of a very confusing iceberg)

OP posts:
BatmansBat · 30/06/2021 16:53

@OddLookingYoni I am still scarred from an unfortunate combination of SexEd and transgender issues in DCs school. I am not comfortable to talk about these things but given the misconceptions I had to.

I recommend to sit your DS down (or preferably get him to help you with the dishes so that he doesn’t need to look you in the eyes and has something to do with his hands.

Then you say something along these lines.

“It is lovely that you have Ethan and I don’t care how you label your relationship (I think gay men do mind that a heterosexual couple identifies into a homeschooling relationship which still carries stigma i many parts of the world, but for now, let that go.)”

“Ethan is a lovely boy”

“However, Ethan has a vagina and a uterus. If you ejaculate in Ethan’s vagina without a condom, Ethan is likely to get pregnant”. Ethan also lacks a prostate which means that anal sex only has risks and no pleasure for Ethan”

“An additional risk with any sexual relationship is STDs”. This is an illustrated book/brochure with pictures of the most common STDs. They are pretty disgusting aren’t they? You also need to know that if Ethan gets chlamydia, it can have an absence of synonyms. If left untreated, Ethan may never be able to have children in the future and as I know that you love Ethan, I know that you care about Ethan.”

“The best way to protect yourself and Ethan from unwanted pregnancy, STDs and infertility is it using condoms. Would you like me to buy some for you?”

MadameMinimes · 30/06/2021 16:55

Teenagers are highly fertile. Unprotected anal sex with a female would still risk semen coming into contact with the vagina. It’s unlikely to result in pregnancy but could. It also carries the risk of STIs.

BatmansBat · 30/06/2021 16:56

*homosexual relationship obviously Blush

2021DNA · 30/06/2021 16:58

It's the 'innovative' use of language which has made this particular conversation such a headache.

OP you seem to be over complaining this. Surely you have explained to you son that if he has vaginal sex with a trans boy it can result in pregnancy? He’s 15, I’m assuming you have had this conversation when he was younger? At the very least, he must have an understanding of the risks associated with any kind of intercourse.

CoralSparkles · 30/06/2021 16:58

You need to explain that as Ethan was born a girl, your Ds still needs to wear a condom as there is a risk of pregnancy.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/06/2021 17:03

The DS has been so brain-washed by gender-ideology that he believes his female girlfriend is male and therefore her breasts and her vagina are male and that when they have sex they are two men having sex.

Sympathies OP. 15 year olds have always come out with crap, but the crap endorsed by this movement is particularly misguided. You say he is intelligent - hopefully he is intelligent enough to see through this...

NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost · 30/06/2021 17:07

Just reinforce Ethan is a male with male uterus and male ovaries.
That means Ethan can get pregnant and be a father.

(Yes it hurts to say that but apparently in trans language that is acceptable- just like you can have a female dick…..)

At least, you can get your message through which is PROTECT YOURSELF. Even if Ethan is male, pregnancy is still around the corner….

Pumperthepumper · 30/06/2021 17:10

He thought he couldn’t get Ethan pregnant because Ethan identifies as male? Or that they were going to have anal sex?

chinnychinchinchin · 30/06/2021 17:11

I would tell him it is homophobic and offensive to call an opposite-sex relationship gay. Gay and lesbian people have fought for their equal rights and it is not something to just say to be cool or whatever. They are not the same sex, therefore they are not in a gay relationship. It is dismissive to actual gay relationships, that need to be recognised. Trans is not a cure of homophobia, it doesn't change whether or not someone is in a same-sex relationship. Pretending they are adults 10 years ago, they could get married because they are male and female, it is a hetrosexual relationship. However if they were in a gay/same-sex relationship that wouldn't be possible 10 years ago. Regardless of how Ethan identifies.

How he could possibly think Ethan won't get pregnant?! I'm honestly not sure what you can even say, I'd be speechless....! Perhaps print off a diagram, showing exactly where sperm would go and would fertilise the eggs! Regardless of whether said female identifies as a boy, an elephant or a pencil sharpener. That is their anatomy regardless.

Flapjak · 30/06/2021 17:11

If you like vaginas / vulvas and breasts then you are heterosexual and not gay. Its called sexual attraction / sex for a reason .

JaninaDuszejko · 30/06/2021 17:13

I would suggest he's not intelligent enough to have sex yet if he can't tell the difference between a male and female body Hmm.

OP I do really feel for you, bloody hell this generation are mad.

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 17:13

BatmansBat I did smile at your post - a homeschooling relationship would be a different kettle of fish entirely!Grin

2121DNA I'm really not over complicating this. (I may well be over complaining, but as I said, I'm tired) Of course we've talked before about basic biology and all the issyes around unprotected sex. But he's around people now that have a very idiosyncratic view of the world, and he himself as I said, is very black and white in thinking, so as far as I can tell, he did actually think that Ethan had changed sex so a lot of the things I was talking about weren't relevant. I'm straightforward and direct and as sensitive as I can be. My own lesbian daughter ID'd as trans for a while, and they all have other friends who are trans. It's not a new thing to our family - but the definitive misunderstandings about practical, real world consequences seem to stem straight from the opaque language. Not sure how I am supposed to 'uncomplicate' a situation where my son believes it's possible to change sex because that's the message he's getting from lots of places, really.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 30/06/2021 17:16

I wonder if there will be an impact from this language in terms of increases in STDs and unexpected/unwanted pregnancies.

Hm.

CoralSparkles · 30/06/2021 17:19

@NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost

Just reinforce Ethan is a male with male uterus and male ovaries. That means Ethan can get pregnant and be a father.

(Yes it hurts to say that but apparently in trans language that is acceptable- just like you can have a female dick…..)

At least, you can get your message through which is PROTECT YOURSELF. Even if Ethan is male, pregnancy is still around the corner….

You can’t have a “male” uterus and ovaries, nor can you have a “female” penis. It’s fine if Ethan is a trans man, but let’s not complicate things. Ethan is still biologically female so has the ability to fall pregnant. OP’s Ds is “pan sexual” (rather than gay), which means someone who is attracted to men, women and trans people.

It’s worrying that OP’s 15 year old Ds thinks it’s possible to identify as a man and therefore suddenly become a biological man. He needs to read some books on reproduction and anatomy.

Pumperthepumper · 30/06/2021 17:20

Not sure how I am supposed to 'uncomplicate' a situation where my son believes it's possible to change sex because that's the message he's getting from lots of places, really.

I would start at the point he believed Ethan to have a penis grown magically aged 15.

NoYOUbekind · 30/06/2021 17:22

To be honest OP - and I know you're tired and frustrated - I think you've had a lucky escape. Trans contagion doesn't seem to be a huge thing at DS's school and so if my DS said he was going round to Ethan's, I would have assumed Ethan was male and I wouldn't have probed. So you've done well here Thanks

To the posters expressing disbelief that an intelligent teen can believe a trans boy can't get pg - affirmation is incredibly powerful.

BatmansBat · 30/06/2021 17:25

@OddLookingYoni

You really need to talk about this clinically. You need to stress the vagina, the uterus, the STD and the lack of prostate. And explain risks of STD and pregnancy.

If your DS says anything tell him that you have heard about “lady dicks” and that someone born with a lady dick obviously cannot get pregnant and also has a prostate which makes anal sex pleasurable. Ethan has a vagina, no penis and no prostate.

You are unable to keep this discussion in any way polite or suitable for people who are sensitive about sex.

Just stick to biology, talk about the biological bits and don’t get sucked into gender identity.

If he tries to drag gender into it, show him a picture of any high profile transwoman and ask him if that is a woman or a man. If he says woman, reply “this is a woman with a penis who cannot get pregnant”.

Dramalady52 · 30/06/2021 17:25

One thing everyone seems to be missing is, that whether they are gay or straight, the age of consent is 16! So they should not be having sex anyway. Yeah, yeah, I know they will do it anyway but it could cause a lot of problems legally for him if pregnancy arises.

Fluffycloudland77 · 30/06/2021 17:26

I wonder if I’ve got a female dick?.

I’m so glad I didn’t have kids when I read things like this, I think dh would literally explode.

Beamur · 30/06/2021 17:27

Point out to your son that terms like 'birthing parent' are because transmen and NB's can and do give birth.
You don't need to know exactly what they're doing but at 15 they are under the age of legal consent for sex. Whilst it's presumably unlikely that Ethan's parents would call the police, technically it's an offence.
Similarly, assuming once they are old enough and give enthusiastic and informed consent to sexual relations, they need to be aware that sex other than PIV needs to take into account their physical bodies, not their identities..
It's not denying Ethan's identity to make sure their relationship is physically safe and appropriate.

Souther · 30/06/2021 17:27

Except we don't actually know if he is attracted to males.

He's attracted to a transboy. It doesnt automatically mean he is attracted to males. So he isnt necessarily Pansexual

Pumperthepumper · 30/06/2021 17:27

@NoYOUbekind

To be honest OP - and I know you're tired and frustrated - I think you've had a lucky escape. Trans contagion doesn't seem to be a huge thing at DS's school and so if my DS said he was going round to Ethan's, I would have assumed Ethan was male and I wouldn't have probed. So you've done well here Thanks

To the posters expressing disbelief that an intelligent teen can believe a trans boy can't get pg - affirmation is incredibly powerful.

If he believes - aged 15 - that female bodies can magically transform depending on how that person feels, I’d be seriously considering the sex education I’d given him as a parent. I’d also be contacting the school.
BatmansBat · 30/06/2021 17:29

Pumper my 10 year old DC thought that people could physically change sex after the education received in school.

Pumperthepumper · 30/06/2021 17:30

@BatmansBat

Pumper my 10 year old DC thought that people could physically change sex after the education received in school.
So five years younger than the OP? A preteen? What did the school say when you contacted them?
BatmansBat · 30/06/2021 17:33

“We never said that, it was all a misunderstanding” Hmm

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