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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Son has a girlfriend. Except...

124 replies

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 15:44

When my 15 yo son tells me he's going to see his mate Ethan (name changed for privacy reasons) for a few hours, my response initially was very different to what my response would be if he was going to his mate Jenny's house because it soon becomes apparent that Ethan is not just a mate. I'm a sensitive mum to sexuality issues and we have a conversation about that, one of many we've had over the years. DS is open minded, just as all my kids are, but he's never shown interest in blokes, and I offered him the chance to chat.
Eventually, after much confusion (would probably make an amusing Outnumbered sketch, tbh) it becomes clear that Ethan isn't male, and is in fact trans, but my god it was hard to get to this information because of all the chicanery around language and identification.

Obviously, I have no problem with him being gay, bi or het, and I don't mind him having a girl or boyfriend. But there are significant differences to the advice around certain behaviour with a female or a male, and it was one of the most frustrating parent/child conversations ever, and all the 'inclusive' language did was make communication nearly impossible.

How are you supposed to clearly get across that, "yes, Peter, you and Ethan both identify as male, but no, that doesn't mean that safe sex isn't important. No, you're not in a gay relationship with Ethan, and yes, it's perfectly possible to get Ethan pregnant, because Ethan is, in fact, female, and you are, in fact male. No, Ethan isn't 'male too, maybe the kind of male that can be pregnant if they choose to be' and contraception is relevant here, not just diseases, because you are the opposite sex to each other."

Inclusive, my arse. He's an intelligent boy, very black and white thinker, and a while ago was veering down the really angry internet dude route, but then he fell in with some people who are very into self diagnosing all manner of psychiatric disorders and he's gone compleyely the other way.

I know he'll move on, like I say, 15. But how on earth are you supposed to cut through the reams of 'inclusive' language to make sure he's behaving responsibly? (and yes, obviously I talked about the age of consent, but given that he thinks having a girlfriend with short hair who binds her breasts makes him bi/gay(his term), I think that's the tip of a very confusing iceberg)

OP posts:
BatmansBat · 30/06/2021 17:34

Above was for pumper

Pumperthepumper · 30/06/2021 17:34

@BatmansBat

“We never said that, it was all a misunderstanding” Hmm
But presumably your ten year old will not be a fifteen year old who believes magic changes people’s bodies?
AlfonsoTheMango · 30/06/2021 17:34

he fell in with some people who are very into self diagnosing all manner of psychiatric disorders

He must have an MN account - MNers are famously able to diagnose at a distance all manner of conditions, with a specialty in autism.

To clarify: autism is a neurological condition, not a mental health disorder.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/06/2021 17:34

my 10 year old DC thought that people could physically change sex after the education received in school.

I think my DC's teachers think that people can physically change sex...they certainly seem to think someone goes around assigning genders at birth.

Helleofabore · 30/06/2021 17:37

OP.

Can I also suggest that if he is planning anal sex with Ethan, that you explain that Ethan will need to have extra attention paid to Ethan's clitorus and that anal sex for females is very different and potentially, due to lack of arousal, harmful?

I would be hugely concerned about this if Ethan was my child and considering undertaking anal sex in this situation.

Germolenequeen · 30/06/2021 17:38

Jeepers OP I'm not surprised you're tired - congrats on having such an open relationship with your son and inclusive attitude - he's lucky to have you 😊

DobbyTheHouseElk · 30/06/2021 17:41

Gay sex, trans sex, or whatever you like to call it, the legal age of consent is 16. So I think Ethan’s parents do need to speak to Ethan too regarding the whole consent issue.

I can’t help wondering if it was my daughter in a relationship like this under the age of consent I’d be wanting to have a chat about pregnancy and consent as well as the trans issues.

motogogo · 30/06/2021 17:44

Tricky isn't it, I lost track how many times I've messed up on names and pronouns, the kids friends changed them so often! I don't mind what they are as long as they don't take risks.

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 17:46

Thanks for the input everyone. I've appreciated reassurance and perspective. I'm off to cook tea now, and pleased to say that Ethan has suddenly appeared and is indeed a female. They are currently playing minecraft together. Tbh, I had no huge expectation that sexual activity would be occurring, and as I mentioned in earlier posts, the legalities have been mentioned too and I would be encouraging it. But if you don't have the conversations, you're not really being responsible as a parent, imo.

Thanks again. Fishcakes and chips await.

OP posts:
NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost · 30/06/2021 17:47

I agree @CoralSparkles. For me, saying your have a male uterus or a female dick is just crazy.

But that’s the sort of language people use in the trans community.
If the OP’s ds is so keen to be careful to say Ethan is male etc… then she needs to be able to put the message across in a way that her ds will understand.
Imo the most important thing here is her ds safety and being sure he doesn’t end up a father when he didn’t want to/thought condoms somehow didn’t matter because he ‘is gay’….

OddLookingYoni · 30/06/2021 17:48

*not be encouraging it, obviously. Ffs.

OP posts:
Clarice99 · 30/06/2021 17:48

OP, I don't envy your position one bit! Well done for tackling it in such a matter of fact way.

I have a question about this bit:

He's an intelligent boy, very black and white thinker,

I am a very black and white thinker; it's one of my many autism traits and there is no way I'd ever believe a biological female could be a male, because it's simply not possible.

Just because 'Ethan' claims to be male, dons male clothing or whatever, doesn't make them being a man a fact. And it'll be abundantly clear once Ethan removes their clothes that she is indeed a woman.

I would be very worried about the risk of pregnancy and your son's 'ideology' that he's having, or going to have, sex with a boy/male when the reality is, Ethan is a girl/female and the risk of pregnancy is very real.

NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost · 30/06/2021 17:48

Xpost @OddLookingYoni.

Viviennemary · 30/06/2021 17:49

I would forbid the relationship. They are underage and sex would be illegal. I would also inform the pardnts of your son's friend. It is a safeguarding issue.

PicsInRed · 30/06/2021 17:56

Surely it's Trans 101 that men CAN get pregnant? 🤔 Even an old duck like me knows that, so should your son.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell

Again, a stern "if he gets pregnant, you're on your own son, good luck with pooey nappies and the child maintenance service."

MadameMinimes · 30/06/2021 17:57

Two fifteen year olds having a romantic (or even sexual) relationship is not a safeguarding issue, regardless of their sex or gender identity. I work with teenagers. Any parent that tries to forbid their 15 year old from having relationships is on a hiding to nothing.

SleepingStandingUp · 30/06/2021 17:58

@Viviennemary

I would forbid the relationship. They are underage and sex would be illegal. I would also inform the pardnts of your son's friend. It is a safeguarding issue.
Forbid it and make it 10x more appealing and let them carry on in secret without any honest or open conversation? And oP doesn't know if they're having sex so they aren't necessarily doing anything illegal. Not all 15 to are having sex
miltonj · 30/06/2021 18:01

@PicsInRed

I would give him some condoms and make abundantly clear that you won't be providing childcare or paying any child support for him - he can hold whatever philosophical beliefs he wants, but you won't be bankrolling them. Perhaps a little cold reality will drive it home.

I also wouldn't permit sleepovers which could result in pregnancy.

That's really horrible, can't imagine saying things like that is conducive to a positive, honest relationship with your teens. So silly.
PurpleHoodie · 30/06/2021 18:01

I can't be arsed dicking around with incorrect language when it comes to parenting.

Male.
Female.
Sex.
Vagina.
Penis.
Straight.
Lesbian.
Gay.
Bi-Sexual.
Reality.
Acceptable.

If you have male children, best let them know straight up that underage sex can get them thrown in jail for rape.

If you have female children, best let them know that others insisting on them submitting to anal sex (because of the other persons hang ups) is not ok.

However I'm in the "Straight, Gay, Bi-sexual is all ok - and present how you want - stay in your sex segregated lane - camp" so that informs my way of speaking.

Viviennemary · 30/06/2021 18:05

Sex between them is illegal. Regardless if they are gay, bi, trans or straight. I checked. Lets stop all this pussy footing around.

Pumperthepumper · 30/06/2021 18:08

@Viviennemary

I would forbid the relationship. They are underage and sex would be illegal. I would also inform the pardnts of your son's friend. It is a safeguarding issue.
Good idea. Teenagers never do anything against their parents’ wishes and an illicit relationship is dull as anything when you’re fifteen.
MadameMinimes · 30/06/2021 18:08

Underage sex at 15 with a similarly aged partner cannot get you “thrown in jail for rape”. Some of the reactions on here to normal teenage relationships is utterly baffling.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 30/06/2021 18:18

@MadameMinimes

Underage sex at 15 with a similarly aged partner cannot get you “thrown in jail for rape”. Some of the reactions on here to normal teenage relationships is utterly baffling.
This. They're 15, potentially just weeks/months away from 16. The age of consent exists to protect them from adults- not to prosecute a couple of 15 yr olds having sex with eachother. The police aren't interested in serious crime like rape, what makes anyone think they'd give a toss about this anyway.
JoodyBlue · 30/06/2021 18:27

@NoYOUbekind

To be honest OP - and I know you're tired and frustrated - I think you've had a lucky escape. Trans contagion doesn't seem to be a huge thing at DS's school and so if my DS said he was going round to Ethan's, I would have assumed Ethan was male and I wouldn't have probed. So you've done well here Thanks

To the posters expressing disbelief that an intelligent teen can believe a trans boy can't get pg - affirmation is incredibly powerful.

Especially when that affirmation is coming from the adults. There is an abnegation of responsibility in adults telling the truth to their kids in my opinion.
PurpleHoodie · 30/06/2021 18:30

Parents care. When they are made aware.

Many do.

And yes, it can: if properly prosecuted; and the law is correctly enforced.

Back to pussyfooting around language.

Ensure teenagers are given the correct information in regards to sex, sexualities and presentation.

Old world myths like "you can't get a girl pregnant if you are standing up" are now competing with "you can't get a "man"/transman pregnant".

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