Transgender people have an average life expectancy of 30-35, or lower

[StealthPolarBear]

On Twitter, no reference.
If this is true it's a travesty.
I find it very hard to believe.

You lot need more hobbies.

I find reading is a great hobby. You should try it some time!

@CandyLeBonBon

You lot need more hobbies.

I find reading is a great hobby. You should try it some time!

yes. I think that they should start by reading the fucking thread.

Necessary Scene Posted at 0840

The number comes from the average age of Brazilian transsexual prostitutes who are murdered.

This is one of those statistics where you keep the number, but change what it refers to to make it look shocking. When in fact the result here is so nonsensical that it doesn't pass a common sense test.

It's not life expectancy - it's the average age of murder victims. Totally different thing.

And that's in line with the average age of murder victims generally. There's no significant difference in the 35 number for "trans" here compared to the general population.

One of the things to always look for is comparators for "non-trans" from the same source data. That will reveal dodginess like this.

I am sure though the both Mishy and yeah will be back with correct statistics to clarify the current situation. Otherwise, what other intention would they have pointing out that we are in fact, discussing the fact that the statistics are dodgy and we know that they are misused..

And that one of the impacts that continuing to throw around this type of misinformation is in forcing through affirming only treatment paths.... And we have also shown clinician studies and feedback that show just how harmful the effects of forcing clinicians into affirming only treatment is.

I will wait, though, for more current statistics.

I'm still waiting for Mishy to go back and answer some of the excellent responses to their post on the "been called unscientific" thread from a few weeks ago.

It's quite astonishing how 'no debate' seems to have now morphed into 'no evidence'. Questioning false statistics being quoted as fact by various sources is apparently now a bad thing. Saying that statistics which relate to a very specific group, in a very specific geographical position does not directly relate to other groups/countries apparently means that you are bigoted.

Absolutely bizarre. It's as if critical thinking has become a thing of the past.

It's more important to be kind. And tbh fits with the general ethos of affirmation more important than reality.

We're pretending this is official statement from an actual organisation

when in fact it was a random teenager

It's very unpleasant to notice how you describe 'random teenagers' with such contempt. These are our children. Being fed lies. And there's you, trying to stop us from correcting them.

Rather datun.

And I wonder who benefits exactly with discouraging parents from protecting their children from misinformation?

Maybe both mishy and yeah can tell us who might benefit if we as parents do not correct this misinformation, if we don’t discuss it on threads so that others who might have believed it otherwise can read that it is falsely applied.

Who benefits exactly?

@MishyJDI

You people are actually quite scary. Debating murder stats and arguing over whether trans people are justified in calling out themselves as a minority suffering prejudice and lower life expectancy.

Wow. Is this issue really impacting you that much, that this is where you get to. Sad.

Massively misrepresenting stats has real world consequences, especially when those stats are used to make policy that ultimately ends up harming that group and others. It would be to trans people's advantage to have accurate evidence-based information so that they can campaign for and get the support most beneficial for them. Why would you be opposed to that?

It would be to trans people's advantage to have accurate evidence-based information so that they can campaign for and get the support most beneficial for them. Why would you be opposed to that?

Indeed. Why would anyone prefer to have inaccurate, not non-evidence based, non-facts?

Because it's kinder if someone tells you something to just agree even if it's clearly a load of crap.
Acceptance without exception, without questioning.

"Many" experienced clinicians seems like a stretch, eh?

I mean even if we take Thoughtful Therapists (LGB Alliance's favourite), it's led by a trainee psychologist (James Esses). They couldn't even get a fully qualified one to join.

Says a lot about your "many" comment

Sorry, I just saw that I missed this.

I have already started to post some of the studies from clinicians speaking out.

Shall I continue then? Because, you seem to be kind of focused on disparaging the LGB Alliance really and not on countering my claim with any evidence of your own yeahbutnaw, which does seem to be business as usual.

Let me start to add some others to your resource list since you obviously need to do some reading to catch up.

First up, Dr Steensma and co who, surprisingly enough, published the advice on affirming therapy years ago, who has come out and said that it is not appropriate to treat the current cohort of young female transitionsers and more work needs to be done.

I mean, did you miss this because it is HUGE news and kind of hard to dismiss.

Then we have new organisations launching quite regularly now. I'll just mention one, you know how to google.

segm.org has about 12 clinicians from around the world plus other academics in relevant fields that front up the organisation. I am sure that the resources are being used widely by others. Maybe, if you want, I could contact them to see what their membership numbers are now for practising clinicians?

I posted a study up thread with seven clinicians names just from Sydney.

I mean that is just two sources and already I have nearly 20 world respected clinicians who are voicing their concerns. I haven't even looked who Thoughtful Therapists are. Who are they? Just someone you wanted to use as a blunt instrument to get a dig in about LGB Alliance?

Did you watch the BBC Newsnight last year when they started discussing ex-GIDS clinicians? I mean I have read there is now a very large list of clinicians from GIDS that have now expressed concerns, but this is the thing.... they have to remain anonymous because they worry about their jobs and/or their safety. I am sure I heard that the list was over 50 now, maybe the numbers will be released closer to David Bell's hearing.

I have expended enough energy on this now. Maybe in your reading to get links to disprove that many experienced clinicians are now concerned, you might post those names here.

Just a warning though. There has been a 'letter' with supposedly thousands of 'important' names posted on our threads in the past as being evidence of 'wide support' including a 'Nobel laureate'. I have been through the first 100 of those names and many of them are simply not in the field or even have disciplines remotely concerning this, that Nobel laureate has a vested interest in pushing this agenda, just as many of those that did have relevant experience. So, please don't bother posting that.

Says a lot about your "many" comment As I have asked, and others on other threads have asked, you previously, please post the evidence that supports YOUR claims yeahbutnaw.

Strange that that evidence never seems to get posted. And it kind of completely discredits your assertions about 'my' comment.

Oh.... forgot... Here is an entire country of clinicians from Sweden.

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

Shall I go through and pick out names for you?

OP - is it worth you asking MNHQ to edit your thread title to include

Myth:…

No I'd rather give people the opportunity to say wtf that can't be right. Enough organisations are expecting us to swallow shit unquestioningly. We need a backlash where we care about facts, about reality, about evidence.

Just placemarking cause gawd, the receipts are a thing of beauty and, being the optimist that I am, I would love to see the response

Wow. Is this issue really impacting you that much, that this is where you get to. Sad.

You seem to be saying the same thing in slightly different ways on many threads: why are you even talking about this, stop talking about this.

Maybe in the new world where men are women, age 35 is actually age 75.

You seem to be saying the same thing in slightly different ways on many threads: why are you even talking about this, stop talking about this

It is clear sometimes that the intention is to aim the pointy finger of shame at the women that won't STFU.

It is also just as clear, that many times activists forget that many posters have teenagers directly affected by things like these misused statistics and the agenda driven by activists keen to ignore the needs of young females - often our children.

It is important to debunk this stuff, it's pseudoscientific shite. But the kind of stuff kids like my daughter aren't able to see for what it is yet.

But even if it was all true, this kind of statistic is completely useless. And it is done across a host of issues, women's issues, racial issues, gay and lesbian issues. Unless you can say something about the context, these stats say almost nothing.

Noting a disparity doesn't tell us the cause of the disparity.

@Sophoclesthefox

Just placemarking cause gawd, the receipts are a thing of beauty and, being the optimist that I am, I would love to see the response

I've just caught up and the receipts truly are a sight to behold.

Thanks for all the lovely links @Helleofabore

I'm looking forward to the receipts for the counter argument being posted. I'll wait, in fact I'll join the queue...

@MishyJDI

You people are actually quite scary. Debating murder stats and arguing over whether trans people are justified in calling out themselves as a minority suffering prejudice and lower life expectancy.

Wow. Is this issue really impacting you that much, that this is where you get to. Sad.

It doesn't affect me personally no.

But its being shared, shared and shared again by lots of "influencers" some of whom are only teens themselves. Some of whom my teens follow on SM. My teens then (potentially) see the "facts" and believe them and share them with their friends. Who then believe them and share them with their friends and so on and so on.

That's why (imo) we have to fight these inaccuracies.

@StealthPolarBear

Maybe in the new world where men are women, age 35 is actually age 75.

To be fair I'm 36 and feel 90 so it's possible!!!

can I mention trans women in the Subcontinent - they live a life separate & often despised, by the mains stream society. Many there are prostitutes or treated as such & definitely not rich or accepted. I imagine they have shorter lifespans too (no proof or stats but its more than likely).
I can't imagine so-called "ladyboys" in South Asia have a good quality of life or long life span either
Both of the above groups often have risky life styles & may be at risk of VD including AIDS as they can be attacked/raped

mumwon

I am sure that many trans people in other countries have life expectancies that vary to the UK, Australia, Canada and and even the USA.

However, these statistics are being used to compel decisions about policies in the UK, Australia, Canada and USA. That is what this thread is all about.

It would be excellent for trans health and safety to be improved every where so that life expectancy is no different. That is definitely something that lobby groups should be working very hard for.