Am I non binary?

[YesClemFandango]

Not a TAAT but it got me thinking.... Am I non-binary? I reject gender stereotypes. I would prefer a neutral title (working on it!). I wear clothes that could be considered typically masculine or feminine. To be honest at my age I'd feel a bit odd calling myself non-binary, but I wonder if it's short hand for how my peers understand my views (I'm a student)? How can I check?

@YesClemFandango

Not a TAAT but it got me thinking.... Am I non-binary? I reject gender stereotypes. I would prefer a neutral title (working on it!). I wear clothes that could be considered typically masculine or feminine. To be honest at my age I'd feel a bit odd calling myself non-binary, but I wonder if it's short hand for how my peers understand my views (I'm a student)? How can I check?

A lot of women and men reject gender stereotypes. Plenty of women don't like frilly clothes, make-up, etc.

You're a woman who is critical of stereotypes. Plenty of us are. We are still women. I loathe the way lots of young people have got this idea from somewhere that the majority of women who say "I am a woman" have somehow been brainwashed into stereotypical behaviour and that we buy into it all. We definitely don't. Feminists have been talking and writing about all this stuff for at least a hundred years.

@KungFuPrincess

Am I just a massive bitch or does anyone else find the whole non binary gender fluid nonsense tiresome?

Everyone has to have a label these days, people cant feel different without having to have a category to fit in. Ironic considering its supposed to be because you don't want to be in a category in the first place.

I'm with you. I feel old. Sorry but this navel gazing over analysis and labelling does my nut in.

To be honest, a disconnect between 20 year old uni students and a woman in her forties is hardly surprising. You are a lot older and have much more life experience. I don’t think identifying as non binary will bring your lived experience closer to theirs.

Also, would saying ‘I’m non binary’ really change anything? Your life would go on just the same.

Well, saying “I’m non binary” also serves the purpose of placing the sayer in the “in group” for this, which is what a lot of it is about. You’re signaling that you understand the politics, and you’re onside. Not one of those horrid old bigots over there. It gets you more leeway from having your behaviour examined.

Yes and no.

Why do computer scientists get Christmas mixed up with Halloween?

Because 25 DEC = 31 OCT

I'll be on my way now....

I think generally people love to have a label to attach themselves to. It gives them a tribe of people who identify with them and they can feel some sort of connection with. Teenagers in particular love this sort of thing - punk, goth, emo, non binary - people want to feel part of a group. Often as you get older you realise it's a load of nonsense but it depends how desperate for attention you are.

@Kanaloa

Also, would saying ‘I’m non binary’ really change anything? Your life would go on just the same.

But it makes you special and you can join the special groups of special people and everyone must be kind to you.

Yeah but when would it even come up? Nobody on my course would even know if I was non binary, it would be a totally weird thing to ram into conversation. I do think too many people at the moment are obsessed with ‘being’ something, instead of just being whoever they are.

I don't identify as anything, I'm a female. I have long hair, wear skirts and make up and have a large collection of stuffed animals, but I like trains/train spotting, crime novels, never wear high heels or shave, and enjoy drinking ale. Still a woman, who just likes different things.

I'm sure I meet the definition of non binary. I actually wear more clothes from the men's department than the women's so that might push me further along to the GI Joe end of the gender spectrum.

I wonder whether I feel materially different than someone who does identify as NB but given that they think it matters to have a label whereas I think it matters to be female and bust stereotypes, I guess there is a difference. I probably present more non binary than some with the label though.

Most people are trans according to stonewall umbrella.

In practice though.

That obvious fact is not allowed to be true as the whole thing hinges on most people being 'cis'.

If you disagree with the assertions of stonewall etc you must be cis.

If you are not the sort of person who is supposed to be trans. Especially if you're a woman who is middle aged or older. And/ or you have children. Then even if you identify as trans good luck with getting your identity pronouns etc respected.

If you disagree but can't be cis as you've had surgery etc. Then you are called truscum. Lovely.

But I didn't think you could be cis unless your gender identity matches your biological sex. I don't know my gender identity and I don't have a clue how to work out what one is. So I am nothing?

Well in the event that you HAVE to pick s gender identity.

Then agender is how (on threads on here) an awful lot of women feel.

This frustrates me.

The whole thing is based on the experience of trans people. The transexual old school people. Who by definition have a strongly held internal sense of their gender(sex). And it's core to them and a source of massive discomfort.

This was extrapolated to everyone though.

Has there ever been a study, with people who had it explained really clearly and got to grips with the concept, how they feel?

I don't think there has.

The generally accepted approach that

The vast majority of people have a. Internal gender ID
that this is core to their identity
That it is strongly felt

Is just made up tbh.

When this is pointed out, the response seems to be. You're so comfy with your cisgender internal ID that you don't even notice it.

Handy that. And very original to tell (mainly) women that they don't know their own minds.

I've read that being agender (no internal sense of gender ID) is very rare.

???

The assertions about how it works and who feels what come from ideology. Not actual knowledge.

But how can we be cisgender without a gender identity to match?

It feels like a word game. Used to bully women over a certain age, who have no agenda to identify as anything other than themselves.

Why has the world gone mad with this. Why are laws being made that put women again in last place?

We have to be cisgender, most people do, unless it all falls apart.

The idea that misgendering is awful does not apply when it's people who disagree. Esp women.

If everyone is trans then... What then?

The biggest kick in the face of all is that women who do not conform to stereotype. Have fought against them. Have gone through life feeling they're missing something that everyone else seems to understand. Feel out of place.

And so want to free people from prescribed sex roles/ gender norms. And not to mention the massive harm caused by them all over the world.

Are TOLD we're c*s.

If a woman says no I'm not.

Then.. she's wrong. She is NOT allowed to identify as she wishes and have that respected.

I mean it's just all so obviously regressive sexist nonsense.

With a side helping of wanting to destroy everything that women have fought for, so hard, for s long long time.

How this translates for all the different countries cultures in the world is also...

Never addressed at all.

I don't know, OP. Do you have brightly dyed hair and a septum piercing? If not, probably not.

Seriously, I've thought for a while that the way to kill this non-binary fad off would be for us boring, middle-aged "oldies" to adopt the label. As far as I can work out, a "non-binary" is supposed to be someone that doesn't "feel like" a man or a woman, and I'm probably not far wrong in saying that all of us can claim that. And if we did, it would make non-binary seriously uncool.

Eschew labels. Ignore gender stereotypes. Wear what you feel comfortable in. Develop your own interests. Work hard for your goals. Make and keep good friends. Refuse to get bogged down in arcane questions. Enjoy your life. All will become clear.

Why do people need to label themselves all the time, I think it's a form of gross attention seeking and to be honest nobody else could care less.
I'm a biker, have a job where I work with all men and can handle myself in any situation but I'm just me.

On reflection, I've always been "gender non-conforming" because I have opinions, routinely challenge authority, think for myself and have never done anything because I was supposed to. I have worked in a deeply subversive field all my life and I can't stop now.

None of this has ever, ever made me question my sex or prevented me from experiencing the good, and sometimes the bad, of being a woman, not for a moment.

I don't get what people mean when they talk about "feeling" like a woman or a man. I just feel like the person I am: human, I guess.

I think gender stereotypes are pernicious and I hoped we'd got past perpetuating them for the generations that came after us second wave feminists, but no: you turn around and there they are in all their ghastly extremes, tearing young lives apart and sowing unnecessary conflict and division between people who could and should be working together.

I could weep.

How on earth would a gender label make one iota of difference in anyone’s life? Sex matters but outward presentation and preferences (clothes, hobbies, activities) does not.

Honestly this is probably not the best forum to ask that question, because you'll get a bunch of replies mocking the entire concept.

If you feel that you don't identify as male or female, then it's OK to identify as nonbinary. Try out the label and see if it fits.

There's lots of good resources on the internet to learn more about what nonbinary means. Here's one from Teen Vogue that's pretty good: www.teenvogue.com/story/9-things-people-get-wrong-about-being-non-binary

And for anyone who says that only teenagers identify as nonbinary ... there's plenty of us older nonbinary folks.

Not read thread but why do we need labels for a wide range of clothes and personality?

All NB means in real terms is bind/ cut your breasts off if you're female and wear makeup if you're male.

Again, still more damaging to women than men.