Rosa Freedman told to 'Choose your words carefully'

[NancyDrawed]

Article in Daily Mail

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9736211/Professor-shares-letter-Reading-student-warning-gender-critical-talks-problematic.html]]

WarOnWoman - whoever has been given the job to ‘look into’ all the comments (not that they will I suppose - can you imagine your boss saying ‘can you just respond to 800 people on twitter, some of whom will demand a personalise reply, or else they will demand a meeting with God to complain’) and whoever is running their twitter account (terrified of saying the wrong thing and getting dogs abuse).

@toffeebutterpopcorn

WarOnWoman - whoever has been given the job to ‘look into’ all the comments (not that they will I suppose - can you imagine your boss saying ‘can you just respond to 800 people on twitter, some of whom will demand a personalise reply, or else they will demand a meeting with God to complain’) and whoever is running their twitter account (terrified of saying the wrong thing and getting dogs abuse).

Well, it's just copy and paste, innit? They've just repeated "we're looking into it" 799 times, with a name in the front. The university took a long time to reply so the decision to say that phrase was no accident. It's bland enough not to irritate anyone. Also, we're looking into it could mean the sm team or university bigwigs. Polite non-answer.

An but the kiddies will be expecting a personalised 4 page report won’t they? There are some serious ‘little emperor’ vibes there...

@Datun

I wonder if they were 'looking into it' before she put it on Twitter.

I wonder.....

Rosa Freedman has said that Reading University has supported her. They were on a TRA list of “dangerous” universities for trans people because they do listen to both sides and deal with problems. They’ve dealt with students targeting her in the past.

On this occasion, she has bypassed their disciplinary procedure to publish the full name and email address of this student. Please don’t insult our intelligence by quibbling over whether or not it’s doxxing because it was his university email address: he is now identifiable. That is doxxing.

You’d be raging if a TRA did that to a GC woman.

Parents and students are currently looking at universities with a view to next term’s admissions. They now know that, at Reading, there is a member of staff who believes naming and shaming a student on Twitter and in the national press is an acceptable alternative to using the University’s disciplinary procedure.

You would not like it if the roles were reversed. People can now point and say “it’s both sides!” You may be sure that the TRAs will do exactly that.

Tanith

Do you know for sure whether or not the University had been told of this email?

Because the way I read it was that she was at the end of her tether.

She didn't sound like someone for whom the disciplinary process had worked. And this email certainly shows that people are still emboldened to send her threats.

@Tanith

Rosa Freedman has said that Reading University has supported her. They were on a TRA list of “dangerous” universities for trans people because they do listen to both sides and deal with problems. They’ve dealt with students targeting her in the past.

On this occasion, she has bypassed their disciplinary procedure to publish the full name and email address of this student. Please don’t insult our intelligence by quibbling over whether or not it’s doxxing because it was his university email address: he is now identifiable. That is doxxing.

You’d be raging if a TRA did that to a GC woman.

Parents and students are currently looking at universities with a view to next term’s admissions. They now know that, at Reading, there is a member of staff who believes naming and shaming a student on Twitter and in the national press is an acceptable alternative to using the University’s disciplinary procedure.

You would not like it if the roles were reversed. People can now point and say “it’s both sides!” You may be sure that the TRAs will do exactly that.

@Tanith I still don't get this. The writer of the letter appears to be very proud of his letter and states that he had other professors in agreement and discussion with him. How can he feel he is being shamed then for this?

@Tanith

Rosa Freedman has said that Reading University has supported her. They were on a TRA list of “dangerous” universities for trans people because they do listen to both sides and deal with problems. They’ve dealt with students targeting her in the past.

On this occasion, she has bypassed their disciplinary procedure to publish the full name and email address of this student. Please don’t insult our intelligence by quibbling over whether or not it’s doxxing because it was his university email address: he is now identifiable. That is doxxing.

You’d be raging if a TRA did that to a GC woman.

Parents and students are currently looking at universities with a view to next term’s admissions. They now know that, at Reading, there is a member of staff who believes naming and shaming a student on Twitter and in the national press is an acceptable alternative to using the University’s disciplinary procedure.

You would not like it if the roles were reversed. People can now point and say “it’s both sides!” You may be sure that the TRAs will do exactly that.

If knowing what doxxing means insults your intelligence I feel sorry for you. Doxxing means revealing private information like a home address not someone's university address.

And the Daily Mail approached Mr Wareham but he refused to comment.

@Tanith

He’s still a kid and there are ways of dealing with this that do not involve posting his contact details on Twitter. The University has a duty of care to its students as well as its staff and Rosa is a member of staff. It’s not OK to post his details on Twitter.

I’m pretty tired of women being expect to be “kind” and protect the men who are threatening and abusing them from being held accountable for their actions.

If men don’t want their threatening private messages to women made public, perhaps they should think of that before they send them.

Yeah. Blame the victim. Mean old Rosa Freedman for standing up for herself against a wannabe bully.

@nonever If men don’t want their threatening private messages to women made public, perhaps they should think of that before they send them.
Said much more succinctly than I've managed so far!

@Tanith

Rosa Freedman has said that Reading University has supported her. They were on a TRA list of “dangerous” universities for trans people because they do listen to both sides and deal with problems. They’ve dealt with students targeting her in the past.

On this occasion, she has bypassed their disciplinary procedure to publish the full name and email address of this student. Please don’t insult our intelligence by quibbling over whether or not it’s doxxing because it was his university email address: he is now identifiable. That is doxxing.

You’d be raging if a TRA did that to a GC woman.

Parents and students are currently looking at universities with a view to next term’s admissions. They now know that, at Reading, there is a member of staff who believes naming and shaming a student on Twitter and in the national press is an acceptable alternative to using the University’s disciplinary procedure.

You would not like it if the roles were reversed. People can now point and say “it’s both sides!” You may be sure that the TRAs will do exactly that.

I agree. Any university complaint / harassment / dispute processes I've seen start by asking staff or students to take the issue directly to the other person involved if they are comfortable doing so. He did that - clumsily and pompously. She could have done the same. She could have brought his claim that others in the university were working with him to the university's attention directly and asked for reassurance and clarification.

I don't think calling him out on twitter was appropriate or professional. There's an uneven balance of power between academic and student.

I agree entirely with her stance on gender ideology.

He clearly doesn't believe there's 'an uneven balance of power'. He's absolutely acting like he's in control: he calls her Rosa, he accuses her of being 'problematic' and implies her views are on a level with racism, then he demands that she meets him quickly before he takes things further, while also telling her to choose her words carefully.

Was it Professor Freedman who had students pissing over her office door?

Ah yes it was

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-46454454

He did that - clumsily and pompously

I think you are hugely minimising his behaviour. His email was menacing and threatening. Rosa has been putting up with this sort of shit for a few years now and it seems she is at the end of her tether. The uni also have a duty of care to its staff and while they may have dealt with incidents when they have happened, they aren't preventing them from happening over and over again. Alex clearly thought that this kind of behaviour was acceptable.

@heathspeedwell

He clearly doesn't believe there's 'an uneven balance of power'. He's absolutely acting like he's in control: he calls her Rosa, he accuses her of being 'problematic' and implies her views are on a level with racism, then he demands that she meets him quickly before he takes things further, while also telling her to choose her words carefully.

Sure. It's a silly and offensive email.

I'd still expect a staff member to invoke internal complaint or disciplinary procedures. If I'd received that, I'd want an enquiry into this business of 'working' with the university, and I would either explain to him what made his email offensive or expect another party to do so following disciplinary procedures or informal action short of disciplinary procedures.

If I wanted to comment on twitter, I'd leave his name out of it. I don't think it's victim blaming to criticise her reaction. Other people's bad behaviour doesn't give you a free pass. She didn't deserve to receive that message, but unless Reading's conduct and disciplinary provisions are way outside the norm, she's published it unnecessarily and her action looks unprofessional to me.

This woman has been emotionally terrorised for some time by these entitled thought police, and this time she snapped. Who can blame her? I can’t.

@LazyHorizon

This woman has been emotionally terrorised for some time by these entitled thought police, and this time she snapped. Who can blame her? I can’t.

I understand that that could happen. I am sorry she's facing this. To be honest the syntax isn't sharp enough for me to be clear on whether I would read it as a threat or not - he understands TRAs have attacked her and wants her to understand that he won't behave aggressively (or that he could?) I don't think it's minimising to say that it's ambiguous and I'd read it the first way.

If the university didn't act to investigate / reprimand I'd be shocked and alarmed, but she hasn't said that has she - the implication is she's just received this.

@LazyHorizon

This woman has been emotionally terrorised for some time by these entitled thought police, and this time she snapped. Who can blame her? I can’t.

Yes. This.

What a privileged, self righteous brat.

This. 1000x this.

I work in HE. This type of behaviour is not rare. The tone of some of the emails I receive is appalling. There is a particular breed of student who feel they have a right to speak to you like shit whilst simultaneously bewailing so called emotional injuries if anyone says anything remotely challenging to them. It really fucks me off.

Do you think this phenomenon has come about as a result of higher tuition fees @RestingStitchFace? I went to university in the dark ages and paid no fees, and we all had huge respect for academics. Wondering if it’s a consumer rights issue in their addled minds. Public sector workers hear “I pay your wages” from arseholes too.

If she'd posted it with name removed, with "this is the kind of email I get from students (and Reading won't even investigate, if that's the case) I'd be 100% in favour.

It doesn't sit right with me to see an academic post on twitter to "name and shame" a student - her words. It's not doxxing, but it is encouraging a pile on. We have a duty of care to students and it's reasonable to take their well-being into account when other processes for dispute / discipline are available.

@LazyHorizon that's possibly part of it. Education is more of a market economy now. And I definitely understand students getting shirty if they take a long time to get a response to an email etc.

But I think it's a bigger issue around attitudes to debate. Many students seem to think that they have a human right to be protected from attitudes and opinions that are different to their own. They see being offended and experiencing discrimination as the same thing, which is clearly not true. There's always an argument brewing someone about no-platform a controversial speaker. Whereas academia should be about debating challenging ideas and holding ideaology up to scrutiny. Many academics I work with believe this passionately but the students just want to squash and silence opinions they don't like.

We have a duty of care to students and it's reasonable to take their well-being into account Well i think this should be the case, however when this There is a particular breed of student who feel they have a right to speak to you like shit whilst simultaneously bewailing so called emotional injuries if anyone says anything remotely challenging to them is also the case, its quite hard to see what's 'reasonable' for me.