So, what is 'non gc' feminism?

[ArabellaScott]

Hello, all.

What does feminism that isn't about sex/gender look like?

What subjects does it investigate?

What aims does it have?

Would be good to hear from those who didn't feel able to post before.

Also wondering this, and really interested to hear some views! Welcome to all the new posters

Presumably includes transwomen?

I don't know, Muriel! Hoping some of the new posters who requested this change will be along to illuminate and offer some insights.

I don't understand the logic of feminism without a working definition of terms like 'woman' and 'female'.
Surely it could be encompassed by a fight for overarching human rights (which gc feminists obviously believe in too).
Looking forward to hearing input from others who feel differently though.

@ArabellaScott I agree - MNHQ have indicated that there are thousands of users who hid the Feminism board (and implied that this was because of the debate around women's rights/trans rights). I'm assuming that the Feminism:chat board will be absolutely heaving with all the threads/subjects they wanted to discuss but felt they couldn't so I'm also wondering what kind of things we can expect to see discussed here.

Was that the rationale, Wait? To make feminism more palatable for the people who'd hidden the board?

I'd have thought those people weren't interested in feminism at all?

Presumably there is another section of women who want to discuss feminism but without reference to sex and/or gender - I am curious to hear from them.

Excellent thread Arabella, I'm looking forward to being educated here 😌

I am curious as to when feminists stopped being critical of the concept of gender

Posting here just to save this thread & to reminisce about the old UseNet psychology group I once posted about, where all new threads were leapt on & dismissed as 'pop psychology' & therefore unworthy of inclusion. The day came when all the would-be posters had shut up/left & I waited for the professional psychology discussion to begin. And waited. And waited.

I'm sure some squeaky new Feminist Chat users will be along to enlighten us any minute now.

@ArabellaScott that was certainly what MNHQ seemed to intimate - that people had hidden the board entirely due to that reason. I'm not entirely sure how they can diffentiate between people who have done this and people who are just not interested in any form of feminism.

I am surprised at the lack of new threads posted by those who don't want to discuss the sex and gender debate. There's quite a lot of chat about how pleased they are to have their own non-GC space but not much in the way of the new threads that I would have expected the board to be flooded with.

It seems to be mainly those of us who were here before… it is just more inconvenient for all of us now.

I do think that creating a new Liberal Feminism board and leaving FWR as it was might have worked better. It seems the new or previously put off voices still aren’t feeling comfortable enough to post here.

I mean, anyone wth the board hidden will presumably not even know about changes to the structure? But there must surely have been visitors here who intended to post?

Come on, ladies, you asked for this space, let's see and hear you!

I assumed this was to give those of you who want to talk endlessly about trans issues a space to do so.

It can't be called "trans issues"- hence "sex and gender" but it's really just trans issues.

It will also allow those of you who want to talk endlessly about trans issues to carry on with the pretence that only you are "real feminists" who care about women and that anyone who doesn't want to talk endlessly about trans issues isn't interested in things like abortion rights or the normalisation of "sex work"

What do you mean "this"? You are in the Feminist Chat section which is now reserved for you to discuss feminism without reference to sex and gender. Crack on, and start your threads about abortion and normalising "sex work". Without mentioning sex. Or gender.

Cool, I look forward to all these new threads.

And it's women's rights issues, not 'trans issues'.

Yes I'm looking forward to all the new threads as well.

I was really hoping someone could explain how feminism works when taking issues about sex/'gender' out of the equation but no one has been forthcoming...

In the old days there weren’t any feminists who didn’t understand the difference between sex and gender or see gender as toxic. Even lib fems.

Are we allowed to talk about things relating to biological sex here e.g. can we talk about pregnancy rights? People working out which babies to put in a vest that says "Lock up your daughters" and which ones should wear "Born to shop"?

How can we discuss abortion rights if we can't name the particular group of people who have this specific medical procedure? Who benefits if the language and focus of this debate gets blurred?

Seems to mainly be the same people posting - just across two boards now!

I think I posted this on another thread that asked what ‘lib fem’ looked like.

To my mind, non-GC feminism doesn’t focus on ‘woman’ as a biological thing, but rather on ‘woman’ as a social construct – I’m not just a woman because I menstruate, but because I experience female socialization and expectations, because I’m treated as a woman and expected to fill certain niches in society (which I think are often unreasonable), because I interact with a lot of the boxes marked as ‘woman’. I also see non-GC feminism as generally seeming more anxious about how sexism and misogyny interacts with other vectors of oppression – I have been involved in many more discussions about disability and feminism, or racism and feminism, for example, in non-GC space.

I haven't been a vocal voice for or against the split, but given it has happened I hoped assumed it would divide the feminism threads into updates on legal cases, calls to arms, experiences etc relating specifically to issues brought about by the inclusion of transwomen within the umbrella term women - including puberty blockers for children too

And on the other board more of the 'let's share our experiences of mansplaining' type threads, which I have to say I enjoyed and did miss when the fwr boards became fuller and fuller of discussions centred on tw etc

That's my tuppence worth

I think the point you are trying to make is clear. Please consider your work done.

Please respect this boundary, and take this conversation to the GC board. You know very well that there are many who don't want to hear it, and yet you are deliberately intruding on our space and seeking to disrupt and demean other conversations and views.

I won't be returning to debate you on any of this, so don't bother @ me. I'm familiar with your views and I'm not offended I'm just bored of hearing them.

I for one am very grateful to MNHQ for creating a space for other feminist topics.

@Beowulfa

How can we discuss abortion rights if we can't name the particular group of people who have this specific medical procedure? Who benefits if the language and focus of this debate gets blurred?

Well, based on the long conversations I've had about reproductive rights and the campaigns ok this issue I've been involved in, all in non-GC and very explicitly inclusive space, we've somehow managed so far.