So Mumsnet ignored our request to have something to do with 'feminism' or 'women' in the name of the 'naughty step' subtopic

[StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind]

So we now have

Feminist Chat (which was our space anyway)

Sex and gender debate

If they had to go ahead with this spineless nonsense plan, many of us on the preferred names thread suggested it was essential to include feminism in the naughty step topic. You cannot take the debate on sex/gender away from feminism.

I think my suggestion was:

Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

LibFem

So not only are they ignoring us and forging ahead with this crap, they've removed any relationship to feminism and women from the subtopic name.

Absolutely disgusted. This feels so reminiscent of the erasure of the word 'women' in so many contexts. To take the word feminist out of this subtopic- @MNHQ can you explain this? Because it's awful.

@Pumperthepumper how can I make a short cut on my phone? I have an iphone abs use the app and haven't heard of shortcuts.

I've had this account for around 12 years and been using MN for around 18 years. This is probably a bit hyperbolic but this actually feels like a betrayal. This is shockingly poor behaviour towards regular, often long-term, loyal posters.

Most of us don't just post in FWR, we've been providing valuable content across the site and on specialist boards for a couple of decades, and now this. It's a bit shit

[quote CervixSampler]@Pumperthepumper how can I make a short cut on my phone? I have an iphone abs use the app and haven't heard of shortcuts.
[/quote]
Hit this button circled in the attachement, then ‘add to favourites’ then ‘save’ and it will appear as a tab on your safari page when you open a new window.

It’s hugely insulting.

• As previous pp has said, my sex-based rights and protections are not up for debate. This is not a simple matter of difference of opinion, and the two ‘sides’ are not remotely equivalent.

That word (debate) needs to be removed.

@ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn

I've had this account for around 12 years and been using MN for around 18 years. This is probably a bit hyperbolic but this actually feels like a betrayal. This is shockingly poor behaviour towards regular, often long-term, loyal posters.

Most of us don't just post in FWR, we've been providing valuable content across the site and on specialist boards for a couple of decades, and now this. It's a bit shit

Absolutely.

It's fairly obvious why this has happened and the significance of the timing of it. Although there has been constant attacks against FWR for the length of its existence, it was easy for TRA's to smear the women on here as 'transphobes', 'mad feminists', 'genital obsessives' etc. People would parrot that it's a 'transphobic' website based in part on bad faith posters who post carefully curated screenshots on Twitter.

However, the tide is turning. Normal people on the street are becoming more aware of the issues and becoming more vocal. There have been several high profile 'wins' for common sense and the tone of articles in mainstream media is becoming more balanced. Those 'mad bitches' on FWR are looking less and less unreasonable.

Undoubtedly, as with most dying regimes, there has been a huge pushback as last, desperate attempt to hold onto power. I'm guessing Mumsnet have received many, many more emails regarding this issue in the last few months, from people who clearly have no solid base to their arguments, as they are unwilling to express them on an open forum.

If Mumsnet would take courage and hold the line until this truly odd period of history has passed, they will really be able to say that they supported the right of women to speak. If they continue to impose punative talk guidelines (to only one board) and by imposing a beautifully signposted area for the misogynistic monitors, then they clearly aren't allowing women to speak freely.

I agree @ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn

I've been here for 9 years now so not as long as you but considerable length of time. Found it when pregnant with my first. I've had such amazing support on here over the years- through mentally tough pregnancy, abusive relationship, and it's just such a wonderful resource- I would never have learned about so many of the issues discussed in FWR without Mumsnet. I'm so grateful for the sake of my DC- the PSHE threads on FWR have been enlightening to say the least!

This week has been really disappointing.

Justine

I think the split is artificial and unnecessary and the name of the new board is awful. I don’t want to debate sex and gender - I want to protect women’s sex based rights. At minimum change the name.

I am in favour of the topics being split - but I do agree they should both have had the word 'Feminism' in the topic title, not just the URL.

I can see why GC feminists are upset by the name.

Excellent post @Waitwhat23

Perhaps we could do it like this:

Feminism based on biological fact.

Feminism inclusive of Penis.

Would that work?

What about Reality-based Feminism?

@Ninkanink

Perhaps we could do it like this:

Feminism based on biological fact.

Feminism inclusive of Penis.

Would that work?

It works if you think sneering at women is constructive.

Just want to chime in that I agree with the FWR posters in hating the division and the new name. If there's been a poll to gather opinion, I haven't seen or contributed to it. I don't think there has been anything of the sort though.

@Orangecircling

It’s not sneering. It’s factual.

Sometimes truth is difficult to accept. That doesn’t make it any less true.

wondering if adding “Feminism:” at the start of each thread title on the board be helpful in the meantime?

this feels like a punishment

somebody somewhere is taking out their frustrations on their content providers

@JustineMumsnet I stress again that we have not silenced or siloed anyone!

Those of us who want to be free to discuss narcissistic abuse such as coercive control and DARVO do feel silenced and have to tread on eggshells to discuss it (ironically all part of it). I posted on the other thread (where you announced splitting the board) about narcissistic abuse, such coercive control and DARVO, those posts were deleted. I have since learnt that other users have had posts removed and have even been banned for talking about these harmful practices males use to oppress women. Now that transwidows are getting media coverage and ‘cancel culture’ is being seen for what it is; a way of silencing debate. I think sites deleting posts and banning users exposing male’s abusive behaviour will be looked on very unfavourably indeed very soon. Can you please confirm that it is mumsnet policy to remove posts that expose males or a group of males use of coercive control and DARVO, if you get reports from people who don’t like women discussing these abusive practices?

@JustineMumsnet

Hi all. We considered Feminism - sex and gender but rejected it because Google doesn't like long titles for search purposes and second because it. However you'll notice the url of this topic is women's rights and that it is housed in the Feminism and women's rights category.

Thanks Justine, it makes perfect sense.

@NutellaEllaElla

Just want to chime in that I agree with the FWR posters in hating the division and the new name. If there's been a poll to gather opinion, I haven't seen or contributed to it. I don't think there has been anything of the sort though.

So if I post on the board I'm a demon inclusive of penis am I? You have labelled and categorised me with an intention to diminish despite knowing nothing about me at all. I reject your silly labels.

@NutellaEllaElla

Quoted the wrong post, sorry.

@Orangecircling uhm no. I said no such thing.

[quote Ninkanink]@Orangecircling

It’s not sneering. It’s factual.

Sometimes truth is difficult to accept. That doesn’t make it any less true.[/quote]
I was responding to this one where I and any other posters using the feminism chat board are now labelled penis inclusive.

Ridiculous.

@Orangecircling there are plenty of posters who seem to be enjoying having a good sneer at those who are disappointed in the name change and board split. The whole thing is divisive and not constructive.

The problem with this title I think is that it's effectively saying if you don't believe in sex-based rights then you're unwelcome in this topic.

Wow. This is bold.

The 'debate' is surely about whether there is a conflict between trans rights and women's rights and if so, how best to address this conflict. I am happy to put a lot of time, effort and good will into that debate.

I'm not prepared to give the time of day to people who 'don't believe in sex-based rights' in the first place. The word for those people is misogynists.

This is really basic stuff. Sex is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act and so we do have rights based on sex. We have the right to not be discriminated against or harassed because of our sex.

I thought this was understood because a couple of days ago you said, Mumsnet is an inherently female-centred and feminist space and we have an honourable history of supporting and promoting feminist viewpoints.

I hope misogynists do feel unwelcome here, and everywhere else on MN. Same goes for racists, people who 'don't believe in' disability rights, rights for lesbian and gay people etc.

If I wanted to debate whether I should have sex-based rights or not then there are plenty of MRA and incel sites I could choose from.