When your daughter's friend is trans.

[Sirranon]

I've lurked on here for a while, reading the gender critical stuff. But I've not seen this addressed.

How do people think is best to handle it wisely when DDs best friend is trans. Would you use or not use the requested pronouns? Are there any good resources I can give to DD to persuade her her friend is potentially on a bad path. 🙁

DD has fully bought into all this and is providing support and encouragement.

I've just found out her friend is binding and I'm horrified. Even though I know it's not my daughter or my business.

I think you're right that it's none of your business. And I imagine your daughter would be devastated if you tried to use her to 'convert' her friend – you wouldn't do the same if the friend were gay. Like, why would you want to drive a wedge between her and her friend like that?

And, of course, use the pronouns the friend wants to use –it's just a matter of politeness, rather than making the friend (and, possibly, by extension, your daughter) feel uncomfortable around you.

I absolutely don't want to drive any wedges. They are good friends.

Then I think just leave them to it. No resources or persuasion required.

My niece is a transman. I use her chosen name at all times and avoid using any pronouns around her if at all possible.

Transgender Trend may be able to help.

I'd use preferred pronouns. I'd maybe gently explore with your DD if she believes that boys can't have breasts or whether that's actually a bit transphobic and exclusionary? Is there a specific reason the friend is binding eg they have specific body dysmorphia about their breasts (Not something you can really ask the friend though). I'd keep an eye open from a safeguarding perspective as tightly binding any part of the body damages it.

You can't do anything to interfere with the other child's choices. That's for her parents/caters to deal with. If you find using the opposite sex pronouns to be tricky, which it can be, then stick to using the child's name instead, if you need to talk to you DD whilst referring to this friend.

Don't try to persuade your DD that her friend is on the wrong track. It will come over as controlling and pushy. What I would do, is if she discusses it with you, be neutral but point out the risks or possible issues with what she's talking about. You can also correct any factual errors or misunderstandings as they crop up, around the ideas of sex and gender.

Oh my gosh, nooooooo. This post is so wrong. Absolutely what business is it of yours? Please don't be that parent. Let their friendship develop as it should without your fixation on who is right.

No no no no no.

@NoPrivateSpy

Oh my gosh, nooooooo. This post is so wrong. Absolutely what business is it of yours? Please don't be that parent. Let their friendship develop as it should without your fixation on who is right.

No no no no no.

What question in the op are you answering with "no"? Whether to use male pronouns?

Most of my DDs friends have s trans identity of some sort.

One has changed her name into s neutral one.

I just smile and get on with it. Before this my DD and I had s chat after a slightly weird lesson at school and she knows sex and gender are not the same thing. Everyone should of course be able to dress as they like etc but you can't change your sex. And that binding is not great.

You all are right I need to back off and mind my own. Today I was upset 😡 and said what I thought (to my daughter obviously not the friend). Ie that it was mutilation of young women. Fell on deaf ears obviously.

I've tried talking about issues around sex and gender in the abstract before but she just regurgitates stuff with no logic and we end up rowing. I'm not sure at 13 many kids have the frontal lobes to really analyse stuff.

I best go apologise for my words and reassure her I'm supportive of her friend as a person even if I have strong reservations about certain choices.

Why would you not use their preferred pronouns?

It's easy enough to avoid pronouns when talking to the child, I wouldn't want to deliberately use words that will upset an emotionally vulnerable child.

My DCs don't any trans friends but I've spoken to them quite a lot about how you can't change your sex and how trans people often have issues that cause them to reject their body and it is much healthier to accept your body despite any imperfections it may have (really think this important even if there wasn't a trans debate). I've talked about social contagion and how when I was young lots of people had anorexia and now the same kind of people are trans. We've also talked about the long term harm of the medical interventions trans people have and how it's not all unicorns and rainbows. We've also raised our girls as feminists who have known since they were tiny that gender stereotypes are rubbish and girls can play football and boys can like sewing and they have some gay relatives so gay relationships are as normal to them as straight relationships. My eldest is 'gender nonconforming' so has been accused of being a boy or trans many times so I've worked hard to protect her from this ideology.

If they had a trans friend I would talk about looking after your boundaries and how a lot of trans people have mental health issues and how it's OK to not always be able to support them and it's OK to keep your distance if you find it draining and that I'm their Mum and am always available if they need me to support them.

@haveaday

Why would you not use their preferred pronouns?

The pronouns issue only comes up when the friend is not there. When they are there, I refer to them by their new chosen name.

What I'm meant to be doing, accirding to dd, is referring to this person as he in her absence and that feels like aquiescing in something I fundamentally have a problem with, because it's biologically untrue.

Use their preferred pronouns as that is the polite thing to do. Unless they’ve made some up, in which case just use ‘they’ because otherwise when there is contagion you’re going to be too confused for words and then called a bigot simply because you can’t recall them all...

On the binding, it’s concerning but it’s her parents responsibility to step in, not yours. Should your child suddenly suggest it’s a good idea though, explain to them just how damaging it is.

You are right,what this child does is none of your business.
You should out of respect for him use his preferred Pro nouns.
Sounds like both you and your daughter are sensible and level headed, he is lucky to have such friends

I'd use preferred pronouns. I'd maybe gently explore with your DD if she believes that boys can't have breasts or whether that's actually a bit transphobic and exclusionary?

This. If transwomen can have ladypenis, why can’t transmen have male breasts?

I think I’d just say that they are free to be whoever they want to be. However I don’t believe under 18’s should do anything that may damage their body while it’s still growing - once they are adults then is the time to do that, if they wish.

I’d also point out that if you are “born in the wrong body”, why is it almost exclusively teen girls and middle aged men. Surely teen boys would be transitioning at the same rate…

Why not use preferred pronouns?

Because you don't want to encourage thought patterns that are already leading to self harm ? You know, caring about people

I'm sure he is fully aware it's not biologically true but it's a bit rude if you don't respect his wishes. Especially as it's someone your DD is close to.

@midgemagneto

Why not use preferred pronouns?

Because you don't want to encourage thought patterns that are already leading to self harm ? You know, caring about people

Also this. You put it better than I did.

Pick your battles OP. It's absolutely right that parents should be cautious about who their children are friendly with and who / what influences them. At present many of the younger generation are determined that they're right about biological sex being a myth with binding, drugs and surgery being a good choice for children struggling with puberty.
While we know that this is inherently dangerous and wrong, it's important to remain close to our children.There are plenty of creepy adults and groups out there trying to drive wedges between children and their parents.

I'd use the pronouns, be respectful and friendly while finding the right time to have the difficult discussions with your daughter about self harm and mental health. I think the key is for our children to know that we have their backs while they explore all this so that the demands of the toxic adults seem less attractive than the security of family and friends.

My friend's son is now her daughter and, as I don't want to upset anyone I hold my line at 'they' and their chosen name.

I avoid any sexed terminology at all. I won't lie. Nor do I want to upset my friend who has bought into all of the 'TWAW end of discussion' stuff. So we just don't discuss it and I do my best not to make it the elephant in the room.

It's easier when the 13 year old child is with us. I just use their chosen name all the time.

Maybe you could do something similar and then have the reality of biology conversation in a more abstract manner.

I'm horrified that the poor girl is binding though. Hopefully it will be too uncomfortable over summer and she will stop.

What I'm meant to be doing, according to dd, is referring to this person as he in her absence and that feels like aquiescing in something I fundamentally have a problem with, because it's biologically untrue.

Then don’t acquiesce, OP. I use terms like ‘they’ in circs like this, other than proper nouns, i.e. whatever said friend has chosen. Obviously they’re not fully neutral, but the alternatives are a) compelled speech or b) going to cause more friction with your daughter.

You should be proud of your DD and use her as a role model