When your daughter's friend is trans.

[Sirranon]

I've lurked on here for a while, reading the gender critical stuff. But I've not seen this addressed.

How do people think is best to handle it wisely when DDs best friend is trans. Would you use or not use the requested pronouns? Are there any good resources I can give to DD to persuade her her friend is potentially on a bad path. 🙁

DD has fully bought into all this and is providing support and encouragement.

I've just found out her friend is binding and I'm horrified. Even though I know it's not my daughter or my business.

DD has a good friend who is currently non-binary and has changed name to a male name. I talk to DD quite openly about trans issues, how complicated and fluid identity is, especially for teenagers, and how the fact that this friend feels that she identifies as male/non-binary (seems to change) doesn’t necessarily correspond with anything fixed and ongoing about who she is. I talk to her a bit about how complicated things in her friends past (we’ve known her for ages) might make her feel the need to find a strong identity of her own. I tell DD it’s really important to be kind and supportive to her friend, but at the same time to be aware that her friend identifying like this doesn’t necessarily mean her friend will feel any better. I talk to her about the life-long implications of hormones, binding and blocking and why I don’t think a 13 yo is equipped to make decisions like this. So far, DD, whilst really supporting her friend, is on the same page as me.

What if she was your daughter OP?

Would you like people to cheer her down the path to poorly researched treatments which will make her a life long medical patient? Which will sterilize her? Likely shorten her life? Which will not change her sex anyway?

If it was me I would use the name but not the preferred pronouns of the friend. I would also have some strong words with my DD. The friend is self-harming and I would do the same if I noticed cut marks on wrists or if it was about taking drugs.

You do absolutely have responsibility as a parent to know what or who is influencing your child so I disagree about this not being your business.

There is a lot of cheerleading on this thread, and that's to be expected of those who are self-ID supporters or from those who consider themselves trans. I don't think you need to be a mother to have an opinion but I would say that clearly you have a vested interest in your DD's safety and wellbeing.

You are not the friend's mother (again, if it were me and I knew the parents I would tell them because I would want someone to tell me if it was my DD), so there's only so much you can do.

I also think your DD would feel awful encouraging this feeling or thoughts in her friend if it resulted ultimately in physical problems and mental health issues.

Thanks lots of good advice here. I'm going to carry on trying to be calm and supportive without sugar coating things. It is self harm. I'll use pronouns/names to her face but not otherwise.

I don't need to tell the parents, they already know.

I feel that it’s absolutely letting very young people down to sound like we’re ok with self harm.

It comes up quite often with my younger children’s friends. I sympathize with the distress but point out to my children that I’m the last person to be on board with bodily harm, cosmetic surgery or uncomfortable clothing.

They accept this, given how long it took for me to agree with ear piercings, and given that they know I even find hair dye and tooth veneers disquietingly fake.

Ive also said to them that they must have a lot more faith in medical science than I do if they think that complicated bodies will be entirely unharmed by surgery and opposite sex hormones, and that I’d personally always prefer not to be the guinea pig for excited medics to practise on.

None of this is trans specific, really.

Good advice here. I think all you can do is continue educating your daughter about sexism and how this enacted through trans ideologies, the damage done to women and the particular power of more hidden oppression. As she develops more reflective abilities, hopefully she herself will see this for what it is. But to this this respectfully (which is the right thing to do but also may make it more likely that your daughter will be able to take your thoughts on board) I'd call her friend by the name she chooses. And avoid pronouns if you can but if you definitely can't, use the ones preferred

@Tallwhitepine

What if she was your daughter OP?

Would you like people to cheer her down the path to poorly researched treatments which will make her a life long medical patient? Which will sterilize her? Likely shorten her life? Which will not change her sex anyway?

As a parent of a trans child - this.

If the parents are watchful waiting, support this and explain to your daughter why .

You are right to be concerned about self-harm, OP. And binding is self-harm. You may have to go along with the pronouns etc while her friend is there, to avoid alienating her and DD.

But I honestly think the best you can do for your DD is to make it clear you are only indulging the friend out of politeness. You know humans can’t change sex or be ‘born in the wrong body’. DD may sneer now, but I think it may secretly be a relief to her, now or later, that you are standing firm for science and sanity.

moom

@Reallyreallyborednow

I'd use preferred pronouns. I'd maybe gently explore with your DD if she believes that boys can't have breasts or whether that's actually a bit transphobic and exclusionary?

This. If transwomen can have ladypenis, why can’t transmen have male breasts?

I think I’d just say that they are free to be whoever they want to be. However I don’t believe under 18’s should do anything that may damage their body while it’s still growing - once they are adults then is the time to do that, if they wish.

I’d also point out that if you are “born in the wrong body”, why is it almost exclusively teen girls and middle aged men. Surely teen boys would be transitioning at the same rate…

Some transmen do keep their breasts, transitioning is not a fixed path that has to be rigidly followed all the way through to surgery, the level to which a person transitions depends on their own needs.

I think we all accept that the current alarming rate of young girls coming out as Trans is due to social contagion.

Much more pressure on young boys to be "men" from a very early age. It's no surprise that their feelings are surrpressed and battled with for decades until they just can't cope anymore.

@WhiteFeministWarMachine second time this has happened

Solidarity moomoo

I think that you can be honest with a 13 year old. And you can care about their welfare. So you could just once, and calmly and factually, explain your views and concerns to the friend. I don't think there is, or should be, a rule that no-one is allowed to talk honestly to a teenager they are concerned about. Why don't they deserve honesty and concern, just because they're under 18?

You will never convince her all you will do is push her away and she will accuse you of being a bigot and transphobic
. Every other younger person these days seem to be trans or non binary, all we can do is support or children and respect their friends, it is difficult and I get your frustration.

So sorry moo ❤️

My niece is a transman. I use her chosen name at all times and avoid using any pronouns around her if at all possible.

Ditto. Although as I've known my niece since birth (changed nappies etc etc) I still think of them as "she."

I think it's tragic: my niece has had a double mastectomy and injects testosterone since the age of 16. The damage she is doing to her body ... It makes me weep.

But I say nothing. The extended family knows my general feminist views. I keep off the topic. However, I am about ready to murder my stupid sister-in-law (chief cheerleader in this) when my demented mother "misgenders" her grandchild, and my SiL sternly corrects my mother.

Don't give her resources and definitely refer to her friend as what they want. It doesn't matter how you feel about gender politics. You have to respect them as a human being.

I say that as someone who isn't on board with the current trend. But you'll completely alienate your daughter and deeply hurt her friend. Just stay out of it.

I think you need to tread very carefully with your DD. I would recommend reading Irreversible Damage (Abigail Shrier) about social contagion and the trans trend in teenage girls.

@miltonj

Don't give her resources and definitely refer to her friend as what they want. It doesn't matter how you feel about gender politics. You have to respect them as a human being.

I say that as someone who isn't on board with the current trend. But you'll completely alienate your daughter and deeply hurt her friend. Just stay out of it.

I do worry about parents - and women "staying out of it" . Part of the problem is the levels of social contagion, much of it driven by the middle aged male transitioners and their organisations. It is because nobody has (until now) challenged their "this is the most vulnerable oppressed group in the world and we know that what teenage girls need to resolve their angst at puberty is drugs and surgery" that has left us with escalating numbers of children believing they must be the opposite sex.

The OP has had some sensitive and useful advice and as parents, we know we have to pick our battles with our own children. BUT we must not leave the space for these adults with their own personal obsessions about their identity to seek personal validation via children.

Does your DD friend's parents know she uses a binder? That's a worrying and damaging form of self harm.

20yrs ago my pre-teen DD declared she would henceforth be known as "Fred" (not the real name, it was a masculized version of her given name). She cut her hair short, declared she was a boy. Her friendship group used the new name, her teachers did not, her parents and GPs did not. After a couple of years, and the onset of periods, she let her hair grow long again and was experimenting with makeup and clothes. Some of her friends, to this day, call her by the male name but it's become just a bit of a nickname.

She is in her 30's, a GC adult human female who says she's now aware she wanted to be a boy because they had more fun and did all the activities she wanted to do. Once she realised she could do those things, even though lots of other girls didn't, she relaxed into herself.

Grown ups need to hold the line here IMO. Teachers and parents are failing their children by going along with this. I have no doubt that if my DD had been a pre-teen now she would have been "guided" down a trans path. That horrifies me.

oh - and she's straight, had a couple of long-term relationships, currently doing OLD after the end of the last one.

For all you know, the friend could have some doubts which she is scared to voice, having been pushed / supported down this route by friends, teachers and parents, maybe her GP too. I think that the adult thing is to say what you think. But just once (unless the girl initiates more conversations), briefly and in a very calm and friendly way. She needs to know that at least some sensible people disagree with what other people are telling her.