Barack Obama heartbroken by wave of anti-trans bills

[plantanoakhun]

www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/barack-obama-heartbroken-wave-anti-153244006.html

Thoughts?

@334bu
Why can trans. athletes not continue to do sport in their sex category even if they transition?

???
I merely make the point that we need to remove the ability to transition AND continue sport in their acquired Gender.
Remove that option and the problem goes away

• Why do women have to have mixed sex provision because male prisons are unsafe for some males.?

They don't ... really ... 'THEY DON'T'

But why send 7 (Post Ops) to the male prison estate when a segregated wing could be made available in the female estate ?

(And just a small reminder, that what I suggest applies equally to post-op Transsexual Men ... in reverse, so a segregated wing within the Male prison estate).

Given that sort of option compared to the utter nonsense that is currently being practised ... why not?

But why send 7 (Post Ops) to the male prison estate when a segregated wing could be made available in the female estate ?

(And just a small reminder, that what I suggest applies equally to post-op Transsexual Men ... in reverse, so a segregated wing within the Male prison estate).

Or why not house the males in the male estate and the females in the female estate? In "segregated wings"? Because the accommodation should be based on sex, not gender identity.

So the question then is, should overriding women's refusal to consent to be with males be part of the punishment?

The Geneva Convention states that female prisoners of war should be kept separately from males.

If it's truly "segregated", why does it matter whether it's "in the male estate" or "in the female estate"?

Is this transwomen insisting on contact with female prisoners, or female guards? Or what?

Why is it not sufficient for transwomen to mingle with other transwomen? If they don't want to mingle with other men, that's reasonable. But they don't need to mingle with women.

They believe transwomen are women, so transwomen satisfy their "mingle with women" needs.

Fully segregated seems like the only option. Mingling with women is unacceptable to women. Mingling with men is unacceptable to transwomen.

Why is it not sufficient for transwomen to mingle with other transwomen? If they don't want to mingle with other men, that's reasonable. But they don't need to mingle with women.

They believe transwomen are women, so transwomen satisfy their "mingle with women" needs.

Indeed.

Although how you would keep the men out the transwomen's prison I don't know. They could self ID in. But I guess it would work better because there would be little reason for a man to self-ID into a transwomen-only prison. No access to women.

Actually mixing women and transwomen puts transwomen at far more risk from men, because men will self-ID in to get at the women.

There is already a trans wing in the women's estate. The women concerned weren't asked if they were happy to have transwomen alongside them.

Although how you would keep the men out the transwomen's prison I don't know. They could self ID in.

Then they're as much "transwomen" as anyone else in there, if they were able to do that because self ID was the criteria.

There is already a trans wing in the women's estate. The women concerned weren't asked if they were happy to have transwomen alongside them.

I think this unit is possibly the subject of an ongoing judicial review against MoJ?

I hope so Eresh

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Why is it not sufficient for transwomen to mingle with other transwomen? If they don't want to mingle with other men, that's reasonable. But they don't need to mingle with women.

They believe transwomen are women, so transwomen satisfy their "mingle with women" needs.

Indeed.

Absolutely this.

Joolz, genuine question; why can't the trans wing I agree we need be situated in the men's estate?

But I guess it would work better because there would be little reason for a man to self-ID into a transwomen-only prison. No access to women.

There would be if privileges such as better commissary (better access than women have) were maintained and if it were generally a better built environment than most men's prisons. No, the 'cynically self-ID'd into the space men' would not benefit from the commissary items in question but in a prison system it seems all things can be bartered or sold.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3292213-Trans-gender-inmates-must-be-allowed-make-up

@NecessaryScene

Is this transwomen insisting on contact with female prisoners, or female guards? Or what?

Ahem ... This Transsexual Woman is not insisting on anything ...

I would have thought that these prisoners would have specific needs of their own - facilities, medical etc.

@teawamutu

Joolz, genuine question; why can't the trans wing I agree we need be situated in the men's estate?

it could ... and put the Transsexual Men in with the women's estate ...

Hmmm ... are we doing the right thing here or are we seeking to not have to bend with our ideology ... Difficult eh?

Course, Tis easy for me to say since I am not likely to spend any time in prison (excuse me 1 sec - looks for wood to knock on ) but I wonder how a transsexual women would feel about that ... and how a transsexual man might feel when forced into the women's estate.

(Prison, as I understand it, is about the removal of liberty. I am not at all sure that the prison service is charged - or should be charged - with the duty of removing/disrespecting a persons individual view of themselves and who they are. But that's probably cos I'm nothing more than a dippy hippy leftie liberal ... as they say)

Course, better option would be a prison that was devoted to Transsexual people, with a wing for transsexual men and a wing for transsexual women and 'never the twain shall meet' (or summat like that .)

But that costs money ... so (I feel a thread on taxes etc coming on)

Course, Tis easy for me to say since I am not likely to spend any time in prison (excuse me 1 sec - looks for wood to knock on wink ) but I wonder how a transsexual women would feel about that ... and how a transsexual man might feel when forced into the women's estate.

That, but also how do women prisoners feel about the prospect of being locked up with biological males.

And the feelings of trans prisoners were consulted, but the feelings and needs of women were not.

how a transsexual man might feel when forced into the women's estate

For some people that would be their fantasy.

Also they already are, aren't they? Pretty sure there are no biological females in male prisons.

@WhiteFeministWarMachine

For some people that would be their fantasy.

I fear we may (in this conversation) have our wires crossed in our use of terminology - sorry, I should be more clear about my meanings... my fault, let me explain how I see things :

A Transsexual Man is born female who transitions to be a Man

A Transsexual Women is born male who transitions to be a Woman

Transsexual People undertake Irreversible Surgery.

Transgender is the Umbrella term which covers everyone else in the world of 'T'

I do not believe that any TransGender person should be sent to a prison which does not house people of their Birth Sex

Transgender Women go to a Mans prison
Transgender Men go to a Woman's prison

if we wish to make special provision for these people in terms of segregation etc thats a subject for another thread ... (and is not my purpose here).

You can respect TW (and TS) feelings, needs and preferences to not be placed in the male estate, and there are certainly many issues of safety and vulnerability to be faced here.

However if you do that, you also have to respect women's feelings, needs and preferences not to have male people in the female estate, and they have just as much issues of safety and vulnerability of their own.

To provide male prisoners with this respect for needs and feelings without extending it equally to female prisoners is male rights activism. Obviously not ok. Females are not put on this earth to play second fiddle humans, if under this ideology they have to suck up being afraid, harassed, assaulted, no privacy, no dignity, no care or interest in their voices, then I'm afraid my answer is then my answer is what is sauce for the gander is also sauce for the goose. Male prisoners will just have to suck it up in the male estate too.

If however there is going to be equal consideration of male and female needs, voices, feelings, then the only proportionate compromise is specialist wings. The answer to 'but this is segregation' is that every trans prisoner would have the option of their sex based provision or this provided alternative. This would also provide TM (who interestingly no one ever talks about or shows interest in the needs and feelings of) with another option where at present they are sex based and lump it.

Again, demonstrating: this is not about trans rights at all, it's about male rights activism, which seeks to establish female people of all identities as lesser.

Fuck that, frankly.

[quote joolzfromyork]@WhiteFeministWarMachine

For some people that would be their fantasy.

I fear we may (in this conversation) have our wires crossed in our use of terminology - sorry, I should be more clear about my meanings... my fault, let me explain how I see things :

A Transsexual Man is born female who transitions to be a Man

A Transsexual Women is born male who transitions to be a Woman

Transsexual People undertake Irreversible Surgery.

Transgender is the Umbrella term which covers everyone else in the world of 'T'

I do not believe that any TransGender person should be sent to a prison which does not house people of their Birth Sex

Transgender Women go to a Mans prison
Transgender Men go to a Woman's prison

if we wish to make special provision for these people in terms of segregation etc thats a subject for another thread ... (and is not my purpose here).[/quote]
Definitely crossed wires. We were agreeing with each other