Barack Obama heartbroken by wave of anti-trans bills

[plantanoakhun]

www.google.com/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/barack-obama-heartbroken-wave-anti-153244006.html

Thoughts?

I'm just unconvinced that it was the conservatives who first made this one of their causes, rather than that they were simply reacting to the genderists demands for access to spaces and sports based on gender identity. The left took up the genderist cause and the right reacted by taking the other side

I think that's true of (US) conservatism in general though. It's pretty much there in the name! The stuff they care about is pretty much defined by resisting social changes, so they are always literally reactionary.

If the genderists weren't demanding access based on gender identity, why would the Republicans have even needed to pass any such laws?

That's one of the first things that puzzled me. Why, in the 2000s, would Republican states suddenly be doing this? Hadn't women and transwomen muddled along happily up till now? Was there a problem? A bit of a niche random thing to start a political fight on, surely?

Having seen genderists, I rapidly concluded - "oh, I see". They saw what the genderists were doing, and decided to push back. Maybe before there were many real issues on the ground, but it wasn't out of nowhere.

Toilets still is a bit of a weird battleground, but I guess the point is that they were historically unregulated - sex separation by convention rather than law, so start enforcing it. Other things (prisons, sports) were still sex-segregated by law/regulation, so nothing to fight there at the time.

At least until Obama did "for sex substitute gender" at the end of his term, which Trump immediately reversed.

If the genderists weren't demanding access based on gender identity, why would the Republicans have even needed to pass any such laws?

I think the reasoning does matter. Republicans are cynically exploiting an issue in a way that obscures women’s real concerns and relies heavily on residual anti-gay sentiment in a country that is decades behind on equalities legislation.

Left wing British feminists then become the casualties of a cultural imperialism that assumes American politics are universal, and this is exploited by organisations like Pink News.

At the level of the elite in party politics, the Democrats push identity politics completely cynically, because it allows them to claim the moral high ground of social justice without pissing off banks and corporations.

If the Republicans are looking to exploit it as a wedge issue I don't see that as somehow worse.

But as far as normal conservative voters, in the US, I don't think that's what's going on at all, and I don't think they are particularly worried that people will crawl out of their gender boxes. They are worried about the same thing as the women here - that their kids will be damaged by unnecessary medical procedures, that their daughters will lose their sports scholarships, that their rights to have female medical practitioners will be lost, and just that it is a shoddy understanding of human biology.

Given that the Democrats don't want to represent that view politically, it's a good thing the Republicans are willing. If it's a wedge issue it's because voters care about it.

I think there is a broad spectrum of views in both parties, but since 2016 the Republican Party is very much controlled by Trump and his acolytes and there is really no bottom to the behaviour they will support to stay in power.

This is not helpful when they exploit a serious cause.

They are worried about the same thing as the women here - that their kids will be damaged by unnecessary medical procedures, that their daughters will lose their sports scholarships, that their rights to have female medical practitioners will be lost, and just that it is a shoddy understanding of human biology.

I’m sure this is all true for some conservatives, but in the U.K. recognition of sex is also central to employment and healthcare rights. As previously noted, in America there is no concept of a right to healthcare and employment rights are minimal. Both parties are operating with a completely different set of values.

One of my nieces got a sports scholarship (for girls) in the US. This is also a big thing in the states where it can make a big difference for girls education.

@everythingcrossed

The impression that I get from Americans I know is that support for trans people is very much a liberal/left wing totem in much the way that if you were even a little left-leaning in the 1980s say, you supported the miners' strike and didn't ask too many questions about not having secret ballots or whether Arthur Scargill was the right person to lead this deeply divisive conflict.

Not in Nottinghamshire. They formed the Union of Democratic Mineworkers. Caused a bit of bother...

Maine is about to make women's prisons mixed sex.

''Maine lawmakers are moving to allow male offenders, including rapists and domestic abusers, into women's prisons''
www.womensliberationfront.org/news/maine-prisons-ld-1044

Someone should probe that git Stephen King on this.

This is where he lives - so many of his books are set there. And I remember reading his novel Rose Madder - that made such a huge impression on me, with his depiction of an abused woman, and the woman's refuge she went to.

So much of the theme of his book was about female spaces. And the need to control/exclude men.

He's fucked over JKR. I want to see him own this, or disown it.

Maine lawmakers are moving to allow male offenders, including rapists and domestic abusers, into women's prisons

This exemplifies why the US left vs right is BS. Everyone - on which ever side they are on - should be able to engage their brains and see the monstrosity of such policies for what they are and the clear resultant harms that will occur.

If someone like BO really can’t see it or refuses to see what this leads to because someone else they don’t like does see it, that is pathetic.

People need to concentrate on the implications of what they are supporting, not who is opposing.

I stumbled across some US ex-prisoner channels on YT. iirc, the male ex-prisoners who discussed this said quite openly that prisoners game everything that they can. If it's possible to be convicted and sentenced, be despatched to a detention facility, and announce you'd changed your identity when you got to reception there so you could be transferred a women's facility instead, then this would happen.

It's eye-opening just how much grift occurs within US prisons to the extent that some prisoners manage to continue to be breadwinners for their families and send money home.

Prostitution within the system seems endemic - and there was a discussion of the possible mechanism that this mixing affords to be able to extend this offer within the system. tbh, without a huge degree of coercion, I can't think what it would take for a woman to be coerced into declaring a change of identity that would allow transfer for these purposes to a male prison.

@toffeebutterpopcorn

These people just aren’t listening to young adults who have been through this and come out the other end - some who have made life changing decisions. How can he be so blind?

I think that most non-GC progressive people probably think that -

(1) Obviously trans-people are relatively underprivileged
and
(2) Obviously we want to be kind and help all underprivileged people
and
(3) Obviously most things that upsets hetero-normative right wing / religious types are good!

Then you add in the fact that no-one has the time to read up on everything, and think everything through properly.

That said, I'd argue that 30 minutes with a couple of decent GC vids on youtube and more than a handful of braincells to rub together and most progressives would realize that the current trans orthodoxy is nothing like previous fights for rights.

Spot on UppityPuppity

My husband (we have 4 daughters) is only just starting to wake up. Now he goes on tangents, he really struggles to get his head around how things have got this far. (don't we all?)

Previously he was convinced no transwoman has a penis. That the castration magically makes them no longer a man. Not a woman either but somewhere in between but therefore don't act like a man, but probably closer to a woman... That transmen were a greater danger to women than a transwoman. I wonder how many men are convinced of such things? I couldn't persuade him, it was very frustrating. It was actually Debbie Hayton, Rose of the Dawn etc who he listened too. They opened the curtains and let the daylight in. Now he will have a sensible discussion and even brings things up himself.

Frustratingly for some men when a male says it, they will get listened too and all of a sudden can hear what you've been saying for months.

Point being, I hope he will hear something and it suddenly sinks in.

@IsAnybodyListening

I have huge respect for this man in general, but not about how he feels over this. A lot of the bills are to protect minors having any form of gender reassignment treatments. He can frankly be disappointed till the cows come home.

I agree.

I am often disappointed at the lack of critical thinking that some people display.

I have seen this often with well-to-do people with nothing to lose themselves (what we used to call Champagne Socialists) who seem to grossly underestimate people naively assume that everyone is honest, socially minded and completely trustworthy. They can see one side of the argument but don't consider the 'downside', natural outcomes, and the prospective victims made by such ideas/changes.

Reminds me of 4 things:

• The Hoover promo (but a product and get a flight to America - I wonder how much that cost them?)
• The Waitrose social media promo (something along the lines of finish this sentence 'I shop at Waitrose because...' turned into a farce as everyone took the mickey)
• The 'intelligent' talking doll who learned to talk by interacting with - people on line (it took about a day before she was pulled as she had 'learned' to be a foul mouthed racist)

Boaty McBoatface

All created with good intentions, assuming that everyone was honest, trustworthy - and also had good intentions. Never underestimate the general public...

Never underestimate the general public

I think some lack imagination or something...

Oh - typo - never overestimate the general public! I learned that from my student job in a supermarket!

As a lifelong left-winger, I'd be voting for the Republican Party if I were American.

I see no way back for the Democrats or Labour.

INSERT YOUR VULNERABLE GROUPS INTO BO'S SENTENCES

Running with the idea 🤓from @WhereYouLeftIt to replace words in Obamas sentences 🧐...

1)“I can’t imagine how difficult it is for young girls, women, and females in prison, sports, refuges and rape crisis centers to know that some leaders – including people who are supposed to be representing you – don’t think they deserve equal rights.”

2. “I can’t imagine how difficult it is for young women in prison to know that some leaders – including people who are supposed to be representing you – don’t think they deserve not to be locked up with rapists.”

3. “I can’t imagine how difficult it is for young women in sports to know that some leaders – including people who are supposed to be representing you – don’t think they deserve a female category in sports.”

4. “I can’t imagine how difficult it is for young women in rape crisis centers to know that some leaders – including people who are supposed to be representing you – don’t think they deserve a female safe space.”

5. “I can’t imagine how difficult it is for young girls in school to know that some leaders – including people who are supposed to be representing you – don’t think they deserve a female sports college scholarship.

What are your word replacements?.....

is this worth it's own thread? this might be an effective means of campaigning by playing back words to men on the left on social media in general.

As a lifelong left-winger, I'd be voting for the Republican Party if I were American.

I just wouldn’t live there. Imagine going into Labour and worrying about the bill.

labour small ‘L’!!

@merrymouse

As a lifelong left-winger, I'd be voting for the Republican Party if I were American.

I just wouldn’t live there. Imagine going into Labour and worrying about the bill.

Snap.

I'm just grateful that over here we have a (albeit minor) left-wing GC party in the Workers Party of Britain.