Starmer and the Labour Party Really Cannot Read the Room

[ChristinaXYZ]

Labour and Self-id

twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549

Rosie Duffield gets the predictable kicking in the comments. Still no public support for her. That's what the Labour leadership think about women's rights and women who have an opinion.

Why any women would vote Labour I really do not know.

@Floisme, I don't disagree with your analysis but, ultimately, KS will only retain his job if he wins a GE.
Yes but, as things stand, he's not going to make it to a general election.

This only makes sense if you view a GRC as utterly meaningless, which is a kick in the teeth for the transsexuals who were supposed to be helped by the GRA 2004.

If Starmer were serious about this change to legislation he would be able to explain exactly how it is supposed to operate in practice, and the impact on existing law. However it doesn’t look as though he is even serious about being PM.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Perhaps we should all join the Tories.

This may (or may not) be in jest, but it seems to me that the tories are the only party who give any indication that they are listening to women.

For years women inside the Labour Party have been trying to have their voices heard, but I don't see any evidence they are being listened to

Re: letters. I suppose one could book an appointment with one's MP (or Labour councillor / candidate) and use it to literally read out the letter to them.

Although if it's zoom they'll probably cut you off.

In person would be better. You could leave the letter on their desk.

Apparently many strategists believe that Labour can’t win unless in coalition with the SNP and Lib Dem’s so perhaps this is just a calculated move to get their support.

However, I think that he has underestimated the feelings of female voters, and in particular the impact of aligning himself with people heavily influenced by anti-feminist ideology. (See today’s reports on Oxfam).

Not read the thread (10 pages!)

For the first time in the local elections I did not vote Labour. In fact I didn’t vote (breaks my heart and I’m sorry past Suffragettes).

I won’t ever vote Conservative, I’ve worked all my life with vulnerable children for local government and I’ll never forgive the Torries for the cuts they’ve brought about. And their desire to sell of the NHS.

So I’m in in voting waste land.

Once upon a time I would have voted Green. But that won’t be happening again.

Apparently many strategists believe that Labour can’t win unless in coalition with the SNP and Lib Dem’s so perhaps this is just a calculated move to get their support.

Ah ok, that sounds plausible.

I think the pressure will be huge to sanction Rosie Duffield. I don't trust him not to.

Do you think any of the parties read this and actually give a crap?

Does anyone actually want my vote.

I fear they just don’t give a fuck about me/us.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Perhaps we should all join the Tories.

Indeed.

If we are serious about protecting the rights of women and girls, safeguarding, freedom of speech and association, biological reality, the rights of LGB people then maybe joining the party of political power is the way to do it.

There’s only 180, 000 of them. What if 50, 000 of us joined? At least in the Conservative party MPs and members can speak freely.

I can’t believe I am even saying this, I have never voted Tory in my life but the betrayal of women and children and the abandonment of common sense and reason by the parties of the left has brought me to this point.

I was mostly joking, but I think expecting Labour to change track is futile.

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

Talking about the issue online helped more women become aware of the safeguarding implications.

What other identity issues shouldn't we have a public discussion about? Is it just a coincidence that it's the one that happens to have impact on women and children we have to be quite about?

@Orf1abc

In this respect (though not in many others) he is reading the room.

That room is far bigger than your echo chamber.

It's far bigger than thr far left echo chamber of twitter too. The recent local election results proved that.

I no longer think this is just about persuading Labour to change tack on self ID. I think it's far more deep rooted than that - it's their whole attitude to women. They may have stopped expecting us to brew their tea (have they?) but I think they still regard women as their supporting act, hence their bafflement and rage when any of us step uut of line.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

I think the Tories also talk about tax legislation. Should we avoid talking about that too, or just issues that affect women?

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

Riiiight. So the Tories proposed the changes to the GRA knowing it would be unpopular with certain factions and would receive pushback, did they?

They must have been taking 4D Chess lessons from Trump.

I'm not saying the tories weaponising it should stop us talking about it at all. But I've always been uncomfortable about who I'm in agreement with on trans rights / women's rights ie the right wing small (& big )c conservatives.

I'm personally cautious about rejecting labour over this issue. I very much disagree with them on it but our party system means buying a 'basket of goods' not a single issue and overall Tory policies make life much harder for women where it matters most - the economy, welfare, health.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

Labour’s response shows us all we need to know.

If the Tories have found a weak spot then Labour needs to be strong and rational to persuade us to support them, to show us that they have reasoned arguments for their position. They have no reasoned arguments because they follow dogma and recite mantras instead of debating the issues.

Labour is apparently willingly giving the Tories this stick to beat them with. Why wouldn’t the Tories use it?

As far as I'm concerned, it's not a single issue, it's an entrenched belief that we owe them our allegiance and it goes back decades.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I'm not saying the tories weaponising it should stop us talking about it at all. But I've always been uncomfortable about who I'm in agreement with on trans rights / women's rights ie the right wing small (& big )c conservatives.

I'm personally cautious about rejecting labour over this issue. I very much disagree with them on it but our party system means buying a 'basket of goods' not a single issue and overall Tory policies make life much harder for women where it matters most - the economy, welfare, health.

I agree - just as Farage types are suddenly worried about women in Rotherham.

However, I think that some Tory MPs are just genuinely supporting women.

Meanwhile Starmers’s stance is a mess. By supporting Self ID and pink news he has allied himself with the people who have targeted one of his female MPs for abuse. Meanwhile the concept of Self ID renders a GRC meaningless in practice.

If that is his stance on this issue, how can he be trusted on anything else, particularly as part of a wider coalition?

Allowing men to have officially recognised female id causes major safeguarding issues.

That's the point no one is willing to talk about, because there isn't a solution.

I'm willing to be seen to share the same views as 'the right wing' than people who don't want to talk about safeguarding.

@merrymouse

For me the question is 'which party do we trust more to make women's lives better?'

Whatever they say / do on gender v sex rights I DO NOT trust the Tories to deliver an overall improvement in the lives of women and girls.

What is frustrating is that the whole 'culture war' narrative paints labour as more interested in issues like trans rights & pulling down statues of slave owners than it is about lifting people out of poverty and delivering real improvements for the many many people struggling.

But the actual policies on this make it clear that labour would do much more than the Tories.

86% of the austerity cuts fell on women.

In total, the analysis estimates that the cuts will have cost women a total of £79bn since 2010, against £13bn for men.

That was in 2018 before many of the impacts of universal credit were felt.

The Tory response was a £30m women's grant. Of which £5m was to celebrate the centenary of suffrage. £30m against a £79 BILLION cut. It's disgusting.

This is what I'll judge the Tories on. Not their tub thumping about trans rights being pc gone mad (because that's what they are really bothered about, not women's rights...).

There’s only 180, 000 of them. What if 50, 000 of us joined? At least in the Conservative party MPs and members can speak freely

I can’t believe I am even saying this, I have never voted Tory in my life but the betrayal of women and children and the abandonment of common sense and reason by the parties of the left has brought me to this point

The Tories have been in power for the last 11 years, any decline in women and children's safe guarding/services (including trans issues) have happened under their watch.

This thread reminds me of Diane Abbott, when she was in the shadow cabinet, whatever criticism was thrown at the Tories, the response was "but what about Diane Abbott?"

Yet you think they are now the party to save us all?

As for tory party free speech? i would have a look at what happened to some 30 MPs in the last parliament.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

The odd thing is that they are not making as much of a culture war about it as they could do.

If I was the government and my opponents were spouting ludicrous nonsense about women having penises, I'd be shouting about it.