If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Why the bloody hell has this been moved??

There was a thread here on FWR a while back asking why we're all so obsessed with these issues on this board.

This is a great way to prove what was said in reply; you try and talk about this anywhere else on MN and the thread just gets dumped here on the 'naughty step', so the conversations on this topic aren't spread evenly across the boards.

People post on AIBU all the time with no actual AIBU, openly say they're just posting there for traffic, and no one bats an eyelid. A feminist posts ''off topic'' and people complain until it gets moved.

The article is about mothers, on a site called Mumsnet, so not sure why it has to be here on FWR. It would fit in just as much on AIBU or Chat, imo 🤷‍♀️

MNHQ have always been inconsistent in their moderation.

What all employees????? Surely not, only one sex class of employee can or will get pregnant.

Policy includes adoption leave. Any sex can adopt. Agree this whole thread should be in FWR.

Moving this thread is like saying
‘Women, know your place’

Thanks mumsnet hq, or perhaps that should be birthingandadoptiveandstepparents.net??

Insisting, stating that people need to know what we talk about on FWR strikes me as being a little like all the things we're fighting against. Haven't RTFT, I value this board but there are others who may not, they are entitled to express their views

@Pumperthepumper The issue with recording male crimes as being committed by females - and then putting those males in women’s prisons - is a great example of why we are concerned.

No laws have been passed in Parliament to allow this to happen. In fact, the Equality Act allows single sex prisons, including the exclusion of transsexuals with a GRC.

However, the reality is that males are treated as females as Stonewall have advised that this needs to happen to ‘Be Kind’ and ‘Be Inclusive’. And anyone who objects is a bigot as TWAW in all circumstances.

This has all happened by stealth without any publicity or debate in Parliament. Anyone who raised concerns within an organisation was vilified as a bigot.

And then we find ourselves with rapists in women’s prisons because people in power felt that they had to ‘Be Kind’.

[quote Ghislainedefeligonde]Moving this thread is like saying
‘Women, know your place’

Thanks mumsnet hq, or perhaps that should be birthingandadoptiveandstepparents.net??[/quote]
Oh give over lol
It's just like other boards in that they move things to the relevant board.
It's still Mumsnet too, why should it be birthingandadoptiveandstepparents.net? Nobody's advocated for that as far as I know, everyone's still happy with it being called Mumsnet I presume.
I mean it started out being called that all those years ago, it's what everyone knows it as.

Jumping up and down?
It literally takes 2 clicks.

You didn’t answer my question. Do you report all covid threads because they should be in the Coronavirus topic?

There was a thread here on FWR a while back asking why we're all so obsessed with these issues on this board

This is a great way to prove what was said in reply; you try and talk about this anywhere else on MN and the thread just gets dumped here on the 'naughty step', so the conversations on this topic aren't spread evenly across the boards

Yep

[quote WeeSisters]@Pumperthepumper The issue with recording male crimes as being committed by females - and then putting those males in women’s prisons - is a great example of why we are concerned.

No laws have been passed in Parliament to allow this to happen. In fact, the Equality Act allows single sex prisons, including the exclusion of transsexuals with a GRC.

However, the reality is that males are treated as females as Stonewall have advised that this needs to happen to ‘Be Kind’ and ‘Be Inclusive’. And anyone who objects is a bigot as TWAW in all circumstances.

This has all happened by stealth without any publicity or debate in Parliament. Anyone who raised concerns within an organisation was vilified as a bigot.

And then we find ourselves with rapists in women’s prisons because people in power felt that they had to ‘Be Kind’.[/quote]
That’s awful, and it absolutely is a conversation worth having.

How does it relate to ‘pregnant employees’ being used on HR policy documents?

@Quaggars

That doesn’t stop covid threads being posted on AIBU every single fucking day.

No, but they do usually get moved though.
Just like this one has.

There are three covid threads, totalling more than 500 posts, in the first page of AIBU alone.

Have you reported them for being in the wrong place?

I am suspicious of the trans rights movement. But I think the Daily Mail has done more harm to women and gay people over the years than any other news outlet, so I just can’t take anything they publish on this subject seriously.

But the Guardian link a poster kindly shared above is interesting.

@highame

I invoke Bunbury's, anyone fancy a cake.

I think it's around 850 Erikrie and non of them small. Whitehall are to give a statement next week I believe, so anyone saying they've never heard of this, are sure hearing it now

Yes. I massively underestimated that one didn't I. 🤦

@AngeloMysterioso

Jumping up and down? It literally takes 2 clicks.

You didn’t answer my question. Do you report all covid threads because they should be in the Coronavirus topic?

I would if I saw one

WeeSisters

"However, the reality is that males are treated as females as Stonewall have advised that this needs to happen to ‘Be Kind’ and ‘Be Inclusive’. And anyone who objects is a bigot as TWAW in all circumstances.

This has all happened by stealth without any publicity or debate in Parliament. Anyone who raised concerns within an organisation was vilified as a bigot."

Well said, and that is why people such as you and me and many others get so angry about it.

@Quaggars

Oh good, it's been moved. Why are people bothered that it's been moved? It's only like when Coronavirus for example starts seeping out onto the boards - not everyone wants it, they'd go over to the Coronavirus forum if they did. That's why there's specialised boards so that people who are interested will go to them. Not piss off people just trying to read AIBU or Chat or whatever.

I am bothered that it is being moved because this is not an issue that is just relevant to feminists.

It is relevant to every single person on the planet.

Labelling it as a niche issue means that people are blissfully unaware of the fact that these things are going on.

This suits those who wish to silence women and want this to go under the radar. No wonder so many trans allies are gleeful says it all.

@Pumperthepumper

It relates because it is the same people with the same tactic. For Stonewall, anything which contradicts TWAW in any way is problematic. So saying a maternity policy is for women is problematic as TWAW but cannot give birth. So the words woman and mother have to be removed as they are not ‘kind’ to TW.

My wokeplace no longer records data on employee sex to monitor sex discrimination as it is not ‘kind’.

If a male employee came into the female changing room and flashed at me, and I complained, I would be the one facing a harassment charge for not accepting their gender identity.

Yes, the use of some specific words may not seem to mean much, but cumulatively it erodes women’s rights and protections.

No, but they do usually get moved though.
Just like this one has

No. There are two on AIBU at the moment that belong in the Coronavirus topic. I reported one as an "experiment" and MNHQ have declined to move it.

I've had a pleasant email exchange with MNHQ about that and about my thread and we'll just have to agree to defer.

[quote WeeSisters]@Pumperthepumper

It relates because it is the same people with the same tactic. For Stonewall, anything which contradicts TWAW in any way is problematic. So saying a maternity policy is for women is problematic as TWAW but cannot give birth. So the words woman and mother have to be removed as they are not ‘kind’ to TW.

My wokeplace no longer records data on employee sex to monitor sex discrimination as it is not ‘kind’.

If a male employee came into the female changing room and flashed at me, and I complained, I would be the one facing a harassment charge for not accepting their gender identity.

Yes, the use of some specific words may not seem to mean much, but cumulatively it erodes women’s rights and protections.[/quote]
If a male employee came into the female changing room and flashed at me, and I complained, I would be the one facing a harassment charge for not accepting their gender identity.

I’m really struggling to believe that’s true.

I’m not arguing there’s no debate around trans issues, I said upthread, I don’t believe a person can change sex, I don’t believe transwomen should be in female prisons.

But I don’t think the hyperbole of ‘they’re erasing the word mother, Sarah vine said so!’ is worth considering because it’s not happening in any meaningful way.

I’m not arguing there’s no debate around trans issues, I said upthread, I don’t believe a person can change sex, I don’t believe transwomen should be in female prisons

Sorry to pick you up on this but you said upthread that you believe that transwomen are a subset of women. How does that work ? How do you define women as a sex class if you believe that transwomen are a type of woman?

Why if you believe that transwomen are a subset of women would you want them to be housed in the men's prison estate.

I am struggling to follow your logic, it seems inconsistent.

This suits those who wish to silence women and want this to go under the radar

I'm not wishing to silence women at all, I am one.
You cannot MAKE people agree with you, however much you try to make it so.
I'm a woman too.
I don't want women to be silenced.
I don't like the narrative on here that's pushed that we're all the same, and if only we knew what was going on we'd suddenly all change our minds and automatically agree with everything on here!
It smacks of people thinking women can't know their own minds.
If they don't agree, it's because they haven't educated themselves on the issues at hand, or because they're a man.

No. There are two on AIBU at the moment that belong in the Coronavirus topic. I reported one as an "experiment" and MNHQ have declined to move it.

Surprised there, as I've reported several in the past last year when I was sick to the back teeth of doom mongering 'Corona threads in the middle of lockdown and I'd come to Chat or somewhere for a bit of light relief, maybe a good parking or hedge thread
They nearly always got removed with a "we'll get this moved for you" if I asked nicely

@lifeturnsonadime

I’m not arguing there’s no debate around trans issues, I said upthread, I don’t believe a person can change sex, I don’t believe transwomen should be in female prisons

Sorry to pick you up on this but you said upthread that you believe that transwomen are a subset of women. How does that work ? How do you define women as a sex class if you believe that transwomen are a type of woman?

Why if you believe that transwomen are a subset of women would you want them to be housed in the men's prison estate.

I am struggling to follow your logic, it seems inconsistent.

Did I say subset? I can’t remember and it’s a fast moving thread.

I meant, if someone wants to identify as a woman - by changing their name,say, or asking to be called ‘she’ - fair enough.

As soon as we start grouping people by sex class - and by that I mean sports, prisons etc - that’s where transwomen are not included. I think this is how most people feel.

I think it's weird when other women don't care about women and children's safeguards. Bizarre behaviour really. Lots of reasons behind it no doubt, but no point in getting into a bun fight over what those reasons are ☺️
Fortunately there's plenty of us that do care. Enough of us to make a difference.

If I complained about a male being in the female changing room, and that male identifies as a woman, then that is very much a harassment case. It is in my work policy that trans colleagues should use the facilities with their chosen gender, and objecting to that is harassment.