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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liz Truss urges official withdrawal from Stonewall diversity scheme

238 replies

BattyOrange · 31/05/2021 02:52

Sorry, I don't have a share token but www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liz-truss-urges-official-withdrawal-from-stonewall-diversity-scheme-9df7pvsrn

Basically, Liz Truss "is pushing for all government departments to withdraw from Stonewall’s employment scheme following a row over transgender rights." because "she shared the concerns raised by the EHRC over the scheme’s value for money, particularly as the civil service has its own in-house workplace diversity programme."

Whether or not the reasons stated are true (I have my doubts) this is a good thing!

OP posts:
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PronounssheRa · 31/05/2021 10:54

Liz Truss is quite right to urge Government departments to quit stonewalluk employment scheme. No place for them given their recent attitudes and behaviour.

Liams tweet makes it clear this isn't about cost, it's about the behaviour of stonewall. I suspect the anti semitism comment broke the dam and has made people more comfortable with calling them out.

nauticant · 31/05/2021 11:06

I was tempted to include in my email a comment along the lines of TedImgoingmad's post but even though there's truth in it, I was worried my MP would be tempted to dismiss it as tinfoil hat territory.

Anyway, I'll say this. Write to your MP. It only needs to be a short email saying that this initiative by Liz Truss is something that would be widely supported by the UK public because it is sensible.

newnortherner111 · 31/05/2021 11:26

Withdrawal and pointing out ways to support workplace diversity, however it is phrased, makes it probably only the second time I have ever agreed with Liz Truss.

Will drop a brief line to my MP.

Unsubscribed · 31/05/2021 11:28

Brilliant statement from Liz Truss, fingers crossed

TheShadowyFeminist · 31/05/2021 11:39

Link to WESC session with former members of the LGBT advisory panel

This is the session that was referenced recently when the WESC had Liz Truss speaking to them, where one of the MPs referenced that Truss had been accused of creating a hostile environment for the LGBT panel. It's mainly a very long whingeathon but it's worth watching to see the number of ways that they're framing Liz Truss as not fit to run the brief on Women & Equalities that she has alongside her international trade brief too.

The GEO is no longer funding a lot of the groups linked to this panel. Jayne Ozanne's evidence in this session really has to be seen to be believed. The startling aspect is just how enthralled the MPs asking the Qs still are, with these lobbyists. Except they don't see themselves as lobbyists but experts and Ozanne especially is highly offended by Liz Truss' handling of the W&E brief. Listening to this session, it's the level of entitlement & the belief that these people have the power to push for Truss to be removed from the role she has, that is most remarkable. She's hostile. She's not showing enough deference to these 'experts'. She's incompetent. She's too thinly stretched to do a good job. She's changed the remit for LGBT planning. She's ended funding for some groups.

What seems to have been forgotten by these people is that the role isn't all about their wants, but is across a wide range of interests.

I'm not a Tory or support the Tories. But on this, I think Liz Truss is absolutely the right person for this job. She's got the measure of the grip these groups have had on the GEO & has taken the steps needed to loosen that. I think those groups who have lost funding really ought to have taken far better care over what they attached the GEO logo to, in order to claim their overreach was fully supported by the GEO. I remember that being the start of Truss publicly taking a stand & I think the era of lobbyists effectively running the GEO is entering its end phase.

Truss has moved the GEO out of the cosy Westminster lobbyist haven & severed the established networking that's worked so well for the lobbyists pushing the LGBT dogma agenda. And the lobbyists are well aware about what that means:

Link to Tweet by Christine Burns of Press for Change.

“ Relocation of a team which you regard as having gone native is playbook stuff. By initiating a relocation of the GEO team that is going to take 2-4 years Truss aims to neuter a department opposed to her destructive presence. She aims to break it by disorganisational means.”

So, the upshot is that Liz Truss is definitely across her brief a bit too well for some of the unhappy lobbyists & far from being 'incompetent' she's the 1st person with significant power to use that in ways that at least slow down the lobbyists agenda. They'll regroup and get set up to try & re-establish the networking & influence they've enjoyed for quite some time, but it will slow things down significantly.

The abhorrent claims by Nancy Kelly about 'gender critical' views this week should be seen within the desperate circumstances they're now facing - the gravy train looks to be coming off the rails & when those used to the unquestioning deference they've enjoyed while on this journey suddenly realise what's at stake, they're not set up for critical self reflection. They have co-opted every social justice narrative going & are in constant battle mode, unable to just stop the constant attacking of anyone who crosses their path. But even I didn't think they'd stoop this low in how they did that, at this point.

So, when Truss has made the decision not to support Self ID, and income streams are tied up significantly in your own pyramid scheme & funding pots, it might have been a better tactic to not attack the minister you should be persuading of your interests. The trouble is, they still believe their own #nodebate hyperbole & have no plan b other than to smear & discredit those who stand in their way.

I hope Truss continues to dismantle this house of cards.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/05/2021 11:40

@Thecatonthemat

Good news. Now for the repeal of the GRA perhaps..
Alongside a clear explanation that GRA 2004 has been rendered null and void once the right to same sex marriage was established, equalising of pension rights etc. etc.

No rights are being removed, anachronistic workarounds are being acknowledged.

heathspeedwell · 31/05/2021 11:42

Thank you to all the wonderful women of Mumsnet for getting the ball rolling that made this happen.

Thank you to JK Rowling for shining a light on this issue and getting it talked about by the wider public.

And thank you to Justine for being brave enough to allow these discussions to take place here. I'm sure it didn't come without personal cost.

teawamutu · 31/05/2021 11:43

[quote FindTheTruth]Another main stream media article
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9636351/Liz-Truss-urges-Government-quit-Stonewall-woke-workplace-scheme-trans-anti-Semitism-row.html[/quote]
Not a bad piece, but wish they'd been a bit clearer that GC=believing humans can't change sex. There are so many people who still don't get the terms.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/05/2021 11:45

Just this week my friend lost her job of 10 years because she has been talking about surgeons operating on children and she was doxxed

Sorry to read this - is she in any position to contact Sex Matters for advice or take it to an ET?

OldCrone · 31/05/2021 11:47

[quote CaveMum]MP Liam Fox has tweeted his support for Liz Truss
twitter.com/liamfox/status/1399274922472521737?s=21[/quote]
Liz Truss is quite right to urge Government departments to quit @stonewalluk employment scheme. No place for them given their recent attitudes and behaviour.

Good to see that other MPs are supporting Liz Truss on this, but I think he is missing the point a bit here.

It's not just about their 'recent attitudes and behaviour', it's about government departments outsourcing their equalities policies and training to a lobby group. Lobby groups like Stonewall exist to fight for their own causes, not to advance equality for all. By signing up to their schemes, government departments have taken a side which effectively says that they believe that the protected characteristics which Stonewall lobbies for are more important than any other PCs. This is what is really unacceptable.

HPFA · 31/05/2021 11:47

The trouble is, they still believe their own #nodebate hyperbole & have no plan b other than to smear & discredit those who stand in their way.

Yes, Stonewall has been undone by its own No Debate policy.

I realised that fully when the Superstraight thing happened. Activists fell right into the trap and seemed unable to respond to what was actually happening in front of them. Even now they continue to double down rather than pausing and wondering whether their tactics are counterproductive.

It's sad - if you're old enough to remember the beginning of civil partnerships etc you remember the very different positions taken by Stonewall then and how much more successful they were. But I suppose it's different when you're arguing a much stronger case in the first place.

NecessaryScene1 · 31/05/2021 11:56

KJK:

Leafstamp · 31/05/2021 11:56

Another write up - helpful summary of those coming out in support - including Lesbian Labour!

lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/05/liz-truss-receives-huge-support-after-calling-for-government-departments-to-quit-stonewalls-diversity-champions-scheme-reports-jo-bartosch/

PronounssheRa · 31/05/2021 12:01

One important thing this shows is that stonewall are no longer considered to be an authority the government can trust.

So when they lobby for a review into sex by deception laws (rape by deception) or removal of sex based exemptions in the EA or self ID hopefully people, and ministers in particular, will engage in some thinking around the implications of stonewalls demands rather than just nod along

bitheby · 31/05/2021 12:08

I have a little bit of sympathy. They've been groomed by some master manipulators.

Shedbuilder · 31/05/2021 12:14

@FindTheTruth

Deft move by Liz Truss, timing it just after Stonewall CEO Nancy Kelley, likened disagreeing with Stonewall to anti-semitism.

All schools, universities, NHS, military, police, official charities and all public services should be independent of lobby groups.

Yes, Nancy Kelley's played a blinder for us. Cheers, Nancy.
Datun · 31/05/2021 12:15

@TheShadowyFeminist

Link to WESC session with former members of the LGBT advisory panel

This is the session that was referenced recently when the WESC had Liz Truss speaking to them, where one of the MPs referenced that Truss had been accused of creating a hostile environment for the LGBT panel. It's mainly a very long whingeathon but it's worth watching to see the number of ways that they're framing Liz Truss as not fit to run the brief on Women & Equalities that she has alongside her international trade brief too.

The GEO is no longer funding a lot of the groups linked to this panel. Jayne Ozanne's evidence in this session really has to be seen to be believed. The startling aspect is just how enthralled the MPs asking the Qs still are, with these lobbyists. Except they don't see themselves as lobbyists but experts and Ozanne especially is highly offended by Liz Truss' handling of the W&E brief. Listening to this session, it's the level of entitlement & the belief that these people have the power to push for Truss to be removed from the role she has, that is most remarkable. She's hostile. She's not showing enough deference to these 'experts'. She's incompetent. She's too thinly stretched to do a good job. She's changed the remit for LGBT planning. She's ended funding for some groups.

What seems to have been forgotten by these people is that the role isn't all about their wants, but is across a wide range of interests.

I'm not a Tory or support the Tories. But on this, I think Liz Truss is absolutely the right person for this job. She's got the measure of the grip these groups have had on the GEO & has taken the steps needed to loosen that. I think those groups who have lost funding really ought to have taken far better care over what they attached the GEO logo to, in order to claim their overreach was fully supported by the GEO. I remember that being the start of Truss publicly taking a stand & I think the era of lobbyists effectively running the GEO is entering its end phase.

Truss has moved the GEO out of the cosy Westminster lobbyist haven & severed the established networking that's worked so well for the lobbyists pushing the LGBT dogma agenda. And the lobbyists are well aware about what that means:

Link to Tweet by Christine Burns of Press for Change.

“ Relocation of a team which you regard as having gone native is playbook stuff. By initiating a relocation of the GEO team that is going to take 2-4 years Truss aims to neuter a department opposed to her destructive presence. She aims to break it by disorganisational means.”

So, the upshot is that Liz Truss is definitely across her brief a bit too well for some of the unhappy lobbyists & far from being 'incompetent' she's the 1st person with significant power to use that in ways that at least slow down the lobbyists agenda. They'll regroup and get set up to try & re-establish the networking & influence they've enjoyed for quite some time, but it will slow things down significantly.

The abhorrent claims by Nancy Kelly about 'gender critical' views this week should be seen within the desperate circumstances they're now facing - the gravy train looks to be coming off the rails & when those used to the unquestioning deference they've enjoyed while on this journey suddenly realise what's at stake, they're not set up for critical self reflection. They have co-opted every social justice narrative going & are in constant battle mode, unable to just stop the constant attacking of anyone who crosses their path. But even I didn't think they'd stoop this low in how they did that, at this point.

So, when Truss has made the decision not to support Self ID, and income streams are tied up significantly in your own pyramid scheme & funding pots, it might have been a better tactic to not attack the minister you should be persuading of your interests. The trouble is, they still believe their own #nodebate hyperbole & have no plan b other than to smear & discredit those who stand in their way.

I hope Truss continues to dismantle this house of cards.

That's an amazing post. Fabulous and informative.
Thingybob · 31/05/2021 12:17

That's an amazing post. Fabulous and informative

100%. Thankyou Theshadowyfeminist

Tanith · 31/05/2021 12:18

PerkingFaintly: “That sounds rather Dominic Cummings, TedImgoingmad. Politicians and their personally appointed advisors get caught doing something shit... so it must be professional civil servants' fault. Poor little MPs: too scared to know their own minds.”

It does, doesn’t it? Hmm

Civil Service doesn’t introduce policy. It implements Government policy. It’s the least likely way that all this was introduced. Surely ‘Yes Minister’ shows that clearly?

For one thing, blaming the Civil Service doesn’t explain how all the non-Government organisations and parties were also captured. It doesn’t explain why this is a world-wide problem with other countries worse affected than we are.

The most likely way, to my mind, is funding and donations coupled with populism.
Organisations have been cash-starved for a long time, yet still expected to demonstrate their compliance with Government policies. The easiest and cheapest way is by tick-boxing. If they can show a certificate or documentation that shows they’re complying, they’ll jump at it.

Let’s take Schools and education, for example. Ofsted inspectors like to see that a school or setting is following initiatives like Prevent, Diversity, British Values etc. etc. - whatever the latest buzzword is. They’re often left with limited guidance on how to do this.
Along comes an organisation that offers to train the school or authority, provides guidance, explain what the Government wants to see, designs checklists to follow, offers to do assemblies, workshops.
A snowed-under school, aiming at a Good or Outstanding grade, sees all that as an ideal way to show Ofsted proof that they are complying. So they sign up and an organisation has its foot in the door...

Where did the funding come from?

When we see that, we’ll be on our way to finding out how these organisations - and it isn’t just Stonewall! - are getting the access and power they have. Personally, I think we should look outside the UK.

Thingybob · 31/05/2021 12:20

The government is now declaring war on @stonewalluk

Oh dear Owen.

Liz Truss urges official withdrawal from Stonewall diversity scheme
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/05/2021 12:28

@Thingybob

The government is now declaring war on *@stonewalluk*

Oh dear Owen.

The government is questioning why so many of their departments are subsidising a lobby group with government funds. Particularly when said lobby group is misrepresenting legislation.

Fixed that for him.

Cwenthryth · 31/05/2021 12:32

Ha have been waiting to see what OJ was going to come out with. He doesn’t disappoint does he.

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 31/05/2021 12:47

My conservative MP will be crying into her rainbow courses tissues when she sees this. She's had many meetings with Stonewall and Mermaids and rebuked me for expressing my concern.Then stopped replying to me when I asked further questions.
Would it be polite to email her,asking her to pass my thanks on to Liz Truss? I'd hate to be thought rude.😉

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 31/05/2021 12:47

Rainbow coloured tissues.

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